I didn't know about these claims but that's pretty close to what I've felt about the albums. Not that they are anywhere near as bad as Foreigner , but that the albums had been made under the plan to sound more of the time. thats a major regression, imo, after the music they had previously created.
Yup. Ironic that Ozzy really ended up being the one more influenced by the slick and commercial side of rock in the end. The Foreigner story is kind of funny in that Geezer remembers it in relation to TE, but that debut didn't hit until '77, so it must have been during the NSD period where Tony was discussing it. I think "Over To You" was influenced by "Feels Like The First Time" but I have always adored "Over To You" and ultimately it is just so damned unique. Ozzy sounds like he is coming to the end (indeed he was) and is whining through it but it just has this aura around it that is intoxicating to me. It is just so melancholic and it's the end of an era. I love the arrangement and the organ and piano accompaniment are sensational. Weird guitar tone with huge walls of chords ringing out. Totally experimental. Geezer's lyrics are brilliant. What an underrated track.
I strongly suppose that Sharon was the driving force behind that move towards more commercial sounds. Ozzy was really down after Randy Rhoads death, and I guess Sharon gave him a push to move on SOMEHOW - and that's a better advice then to let the depression rule your life and getting drowned in a pool of isolation, depression, drugs and booze. She could have guided him into doing something more credible, but then, she's Sharon, isn't she?
I agree with Tim: don't feel sorry for those guys anytime after their earliest years. Or rather, of course there may be good reasons to feel sorry for them, but their economic situation is certainly not one of them - even if they had to accept a non-1st class accommodation from time to time (and I don't think that the picture really proves that was the case, but nob doubt non-stop touring bears certain hardships). They were indeed filthy rich, with lots of expensive cars, having their own drivers, and all kinds of luxury. And sometimes horrible behaviors, I have to add after just finishing the book "How Black was our Sabbath". Apparently, Ozzy was frustrated because he felt the groupies who were interested in Sabbath were not as good-looking as some other bands' groupies, so he called Sabbath's groupies "2-baggers" - as in: 'they need 2 bags over their heads in case one bag falls off'. Made me cringe when I read that. A book by Patrick Meehan about himself, wow. That sounds interesting - even if it is just a collection of lies and exculpation (which doesn't seem unlikely), it might shed some light on the things he was doing. Can't your libraries have it sent from other libraries (who have it) via interlibrary loan?
Yeah, "just give 'em enough drugs, girls or whatever they want to not become suspicious, and you're doing fine." the rockband-manager cliché, worked fabulous numerous times...
In Rolling Stone in ‘71 there was a long piece on the Sabs with photos by Annie Leibovitz. Ozzy in particular was pretty much sickened by groupies and made no bones about it. I think he found their behavior pretty deplorable at that point. The stories of Bel Air during Vol. 4 don’t exactly indicate that they didn’t have plenty of women around but, at least at first when they hit the US, they were not into these girls that would come around who were “making the rounds” with rock stars. Ozzy’s jokes amongst friends may come off as insensitive, but my hunch is that they avoided that whole scene more than some of their peers. And Ozzy was married to Thelma by what... ‘71?
I just noticed that book isn't about Patrick Meehan, the producer, at all, but about a different person of the same name. It's obvious if you read the review on pp. 125-126 of the following document: Error - Cookies Turned Off Reading "How Black was our Sabbath" didn't give me the impression they weren't interested in groupies, but of course the book's account may be wrong. I think they were all married, but that does not tell us much about their lives on tour. Be that as it my, my point was the immense sexism and presumptuousness of Ozzy's remark, which quite clearly implies (whether true or not) that he actually wanted to have sex with the groupies, but at the same time felt they were too ugly. Which in effect totally reduces their value as human beings to their looks and what we might call their sexual utilization value as assessed by Mr John Michael Osbourne. Ozzy's statement didn't include any reference to the groupies' behaviors or attitudes whatsoever. If I am sickened of certain people and find their behavior deplorable, I just say so - I certainly won't start blathering about how they are too ugly to be f***worthy.
Ying, meet yang. I'm sure from the groupies view point, Ozzy's 'human' value was reduced to some sort of fame / entertainmant value, and on the utilitarian side, his financial value. This is just age old guy - girl stuff.
I just googled this book, here's a misconception: This book is about Patrick Connolly Meehan, a "victim of a controversial miscarriage of justice", but the Sabbath manager's name is Patrick Anthony Meehan!
It seems to be clear that, starting sometime mid-1970ies or earlier, Ozzy had musical ideas and wishes that were rejected, or at least weren't adopted, by the rest of the band, and most notably Iommi. Tangye and Wright do suggest that those ideas were 'more metal' and closer to the band's earlier 1970ies' works than most of the ones that they finally used for TE and NSD. But I am still skeptical if that is true. The main reason for my skepticism is precisely the 'ironic' (as Tim rightly put it) fact that Ozzy's solo work is much more commercial and less 'metal' than anything that Sabbath ever did - and, as several people on this forum have pointed out, TE and NSD sound closer to Ozzy's solo work than any earlier Sabbath album does. Additionally, Heaven and Hell, Mob Rules and Born Again all sound harder and less mainstream than Ozzy's solo work IMO. So basically, based on Ozzy's and the others actual musical output over the years, I would actually assume that Ozzy was the one who was going for more trendier music - to me, much of his solo work sounds closer to pop than to metal -, while Tony and Geezer and maybe Bill (but Bill wasn't too happy during that era, so who knows how he felt about the musical direction) were going for rather heavier music. (Whether Sharon played a role or not is speculation at this point.)
Well, I suppose the cover may make it obvious I'm pretty sure there is a book on this matter, though, in hopes that I'm not a complete gully. It's not so much that I feel sorry for them (at least that wasn't the main point, but it's there), but I think the pic is just an example (I suppose a poor one) of how they were cheated. Ozzy and maybe Tony too have used the "sharing" hotel rooms in reference to the many ways they were taken advantage of. And, well, also, that is the grossest room ever. How many sex encounters were in that room? Yuck
Idk, I have always been under the assumptiom (I am not sure why) that Ozz had more creative ideas regarding their persona. I don't have a lot of knowledge in this area, so take it fwiw. Or, if it was about music...Ozz explains how Randy really took time to understand whereas Tony probably didn't. I also wonder if Tony poo pooed Ozz's ideas and then took "credit" for them (that is to say in the real world, not credits on an album cover) Oohh da lolly, I love using my crystal ball.
I think it does. Whereas it may not be indicative to the whole, it points to a value system (unless of course it's an issue with what a country has to offer). Honestly, I think it represents a label put upon them. One that means they're easily taken advantage of. Save a bunch of money here to put on the Exchange because all they want is what hungry little boys want. That was all I meant. And I actually do feel sorry for them, amidst their gluttony.
I myself have to sleep in hotels during business trips, and the quality is often not matching the price... Besides, one must not forget that this was more than 45 years ago - standards may well have been lower back then. So, all in all, I don't think that the picture says much. It's not nice, but it's not terrible either. Life on the road - sometimes you win, sometimes you loose.
You know, Iron Maiden were held pretty short of money in their early years. The difference is of course they had a manager who actually cared, but the boys often complained how strictly their money was saved and kept away from them. As we all know, it all went good for Maiden, but Rod Smallwood (their manager) really kept them away from debauchery. What I want to say is you can't generally say a band is being ripped off because of having to face "unappropriate" accomodations.
It is really just one picture, against whole books and documentaries full of stories (including their own) about their wealth and luxury. There are so many other pictures that would be much more representative of their life in much of the 1970ies - mansion in Bel Air, Rolls Royce, private jet... the list could be continued for quite a while. Yes, there was a period when they were taken advantage of by Meehan. But even during that period, Sabbath's accommodations and wealth on average were far better than (I am estimating) 95% of world population's. I have a feeling that you see them mainly as victims. They surely were, at a certain time and in certain respects. But they weren't at all in many other respects and other times. And they quite definitely were huge celebrities who received loads of attention and praise and money and reportedly had a big salad bowl of cocaine, flown in via private plane, standing on a table in their mansion. "Vol 4, says Butler, cost $60,000 – $15,000 less than their cocaine bill." (Source: <Black Sabbath: 'We used to have cocaine flown in by private plane' >) Well, no surprise Randy had to listen - Ozzy was his boss. Wasn't it after the "The End" tour that Ozzy said he was happy to be back with his solo band because there he could do what he wanted, rather than being shushed by Tony when Ozzy was shouting or talking over his guitar solo? I am not entirely on Ozzy's side in these matters, given that I, as a guitarist, would find it extremely annoying myself if the singer talked or shouted over my solos. No doubt that the members of Ozzy's solo band, knowing how quickly they can be replaced if any conflict arises, will be more reluctant than Tony Iommi to openly contradict anything that their boss does. It is well known that Tony was sometimes a bully in the past, but rejecting some of Ozzy's ideas doesn't necessarily present a case of bullying. So far I haven't seen any evidence to the effect that those ideas were that great in the first place. If they were any similar to the ideas that Ozzy kept having throughout his solo career (and Randy and others listened to), I am maybe a little happy that Tony didn't follow up on them. I have no doubt though that the whole band, including Ozzy, contributed greatly to the music they created at least for the first six albums, and I am not aware of Tony taking credit for anything any of the others did.
Yeah, one could argue that Tony finally going full mainstream was rather embarrassing. So clichéd in so many respects that it hurts (me, at least). Here's a similar example from 5 years later, in 1990: Black Sabbath Feels Good To Me (HQ) Anyway, I am curious if anyone will be able to contribute more to an answer of the question that was asked: how much money did they make? I have a feeling nobody will be able to give a more complete or accurate answer than Tim did: if they needed anything, they said it and usually got it.
