Blu-Ray with 24/192 output from coax?

Hi Barry,

All the DVDs I have created I did with files that had the original (and differing, when that was the case) spaces between songs as part of the track itself. So, the previous file would end with the space between it and the next file. When DVDs are authored with such files the spaces will vary according to the original album's inter-track space distribution because they are authored as a single, continuous, track where the track start cues are derived from where each track file starts.

I know there are other programs (Nero comes to mind) where you can decide what space to include between the tracks, although IIRC it is a set invariable space. In this case the track files do not reflect the spaces between them, which are added by the authoring software (this is also an option when authoring DVD-Audio). Then, again IIRC, CDs can be made to include differing inter-track spaces via cue files.

AFAIK, most - if not all - the DVD-As I have ripped to make DVD-Vs of their 96/24 tracks include the original variying spaces between the tracks. If this is not the case with any of the DVD-As of mine that I have ripped then I have not been aware of it.

Of course when one records a SACD via the analog outs the original spaces between the songs are part of the recording, just as is the case with LPs. When I create a DVD-V with the resulting files it is originally a continuous file - spaces included - that I split before the authoring software reunites them and uses the separated track beginnings as song start cues in the final continous file. I hope my explanation here has not been too complicated and redundant.

 

Hi Metoo,

DVDs are different from CDs. When I authored the "Lift" DVD, the software did have a setting for spacing but only one setting. I did what you describe on other DVDs: I added silence at the end of the song files themselves.

This does indeed allow files on a server to maintain the correct spacing between tracks -- assuming the album is listened to in sequence and the playback software is not set to add its own arbitrary spacing.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

AFAIK, this is how HDTracks and others do it.

 

OK, guys, can you back this up a bit and dumb it down for techno-challenged folk like me.

Are you saying that if I buy a Blu-Ray player and hook it directly to my pre-amp that I would hear the Blu-Ray version of Neil Young's archives only in 92/24, not full rez?

 

Hi Macman,

If you buy a Blu-Ray player and hook it directly to your preamp, what you hear depends on how you hook it up.

If you use the analog outputs of the Blu-Ray player to feed analog inputs on your preamp, you should be able to hear the 24/192 tracks as decoded by the player. If your preamp has HDMI inputs, you should be able to hear the 24/192 tracks as decoded by either the player or your preamp, depending on the menu settings you choose in the player.

I started this thread because what I want to do is use the digital outputs of the player to feed my external DAC. Since my DAC doesn't have HDMI inputs, I want to use the regular coax digital output. This is where I've found players limit their digital output to 24/96 at best.

Hope things are more clear now. If not, ask and I'll try to do a better job.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Macman I reccomend doing just that use the Stereo outs on your BLU Ray player directly into your reciever. All the material except Journey through The Past is 2 channel, and sounds AWESOME on full size speakers.

Back to Barry's predicament, the consumer gear providers have been doing this kind of crap since DAT probabaly before. Eventually there will probably be a "pro line" that circumvents this issue and gives you 24/192 digitial output. The way things are these days I would guess it will be done on some sort of computer app/work station.


C

 

Thanks Barry and Cassius. The lightbulb finally went on.

 

Hey no worries, I don't truley understand how true 24/192 can be passed via standard RCA cables but I go with it

C

 

I did not know you could use RCA analog to analog and still get hi rez. So is the only difference between doing this way vs. HDMI the ability to choose what DAC you're going to use?

 

Hi sberger,

Using the RCA analog outputs simply means the player's DAC is doing the decoding. If it can do 24/192, you will hear the analog output of the 24/192 conversion. It the built-in converter is doing its job, you get hi rez.

Using HDMI means whatever HDMI device you feed will do the D-A conversion.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.comw
ww.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Looks like the upcoming Oppo BDP-83 will do 192k from its coax output.
Interesting.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Hi Simon,

From reading the manual (I see you found it too), it appears one can set the LPCM coax output to 192k.

I hope this is the case and if so, I hope other manufacturers (ahemsony!) wise up.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Hi Simon,

I realize I typed my last post too quickly.
The manual doesn't specify, so it is possible they're talking about DVD-A.
Perhaps a question to their customer service (or a wait for a detailed review) is in order.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

If this is the case, it could be the same-old same-old. If a DVD-Audio disc is authored to downsample its output via digital, it will do so no matter how much the hardware's SPDIF connection can transmit.

 

Hi Metoo,

I'm really most interested in Blu-Ray at this time... or at least in the potential of a medium for 24/192 distribution.

Personally, if I bought a disk that was authored to deliberately give me less via the digital outputs, I'd return it and not purchase anything else from the company that made it.

I'm hoping most companies wise up and start delivering the best they can via any output the customer wants to use. Bootleggers don't care about quality and will create their versions regardless, so only the paying customer is getting penalized by the silly, paranoid, losing policies of the big corporations.

For now, I'm holding on Blu-Ray (at least for audio) unless and until the makers of the machines get smart. (I'm not holding my breath for that one as it will likely happen around the same time politicians get honest. But I can hope. ;-})

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

I'd guess that bootleggers would just try to rip the audio at the original resolution. Yet, this still will leave the the original paying consumer unable to play what he bought at true 192/24.

 

Hi Metoo,

And that appears to be the case.
You can listen via the built-in converters or via those in an AV receiver or HT processor but not with an external DAC.

Early DVD was like that too. The coax output on most, if not all machines, was decimated to 16/48, even if the disk was authored 24/96 with no restrictions. Then one manufacturer woke up, got smart and allowed 24/96 output. Others soon followed. I really hope this happens with Blu-Ray.

As it stands now, I'm might well hold off on getting a machine.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Hey Barry,
I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think you are going to find that happen from a hardware Blu-ray player anytime soon. You will likely see external DAC’s with HDMI connections much sooner than players allowing full-bandwidth over coax. The difference this time is that both the content and the stream are protected with Blu-ray over HDMI. With DVD’s, it was just the content. A better analogy would be comparing Blu-ray to SACD which is not allowed over coax. There may be some players that will be enabled to detect a non-protected disc and then allow high bandwidth over coax, but since most of the content will be protected, HDMI will be the standard means of transmission.

 

How do the PS3 DAC's fair in the game for analogue out ?

 

Did I make a thread poop ?

I was thinking that with the PS3's market penetration, Barry's projects might have a larger market... aside from the digital OUT criteria (which I'm sure could be 'updated' as the PS3 is basically a PC).

Just a thought.

 

Hi filper,

I don't know the PS3 but if you're referring to analog outputs, I'd imagine any Blu-Ray player would have these.

While they would work for hearing a 24/192 recording, what I was hoping was for something better than the internal decoder of a player (or that built into a receiver or HT processor). All would work but from my perspective, not as well as a good dedicated external D-A converter would.

Best regards,
Barry
www.barrydiamentaudio.com
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

 

I absolutely agree Barry. I am sure an external DAC would be exemplary. I wish I was privy to that kind of gear.

But, in order to encourge the future projects that you have presented to the gang, I was trying to offer a 'potential' medium for your work.

Pipe dream ? I hope not. Are there limitations to the Playstation 3 hardware ?