I just played through the Lee Konitz album, and it’s amazing. First time I’d heard the album. If you’re on the fence at all because it’s not from the golden age of Blue Note (as I admittedly was), take a chance, I don’t think you’ll regret it. Konitz is a little under the radar, but he was highly inventive right up until the end. I’m so glad I dug into him in time and caught him in 2018 with Dan Tepfer at the Blue Note.
Some of you may still be on the fence with regards to Tony Williams "Foreign Intrigue" BN 80th Anniversary reissue. I have a few of Anthony Williams' solo efforts (Blue Note, Lifetime, etc...) and I do have a Japanese copy of Foreign Intrigue (BNJ 91015). I have not double-dipped on the 80th issue but am not discounting the possibility of it the future just to compare both releases. I love Tony's 80s Blue Note albums and am happy with my pristine copy. For what's it is worth, check out this MODERN DRUMMER article from 2019 titled "What's Your Favorite Tony Williams Album?" A bunch of drummers were interviewed and gave their responses. One such response was from drummer Aaron Comess, founding member of the band Spin Doctors. Here's what he said: "I can’t pick just one, as Tony reinvented himself multiple times. But I do have three favorites from different eras. From Tony’s early career, I’d pick Miles Davis’s Four & More. From his middle era, it’d be the Tony Williams Lifetime’s Believe It. And from the later part of Tony’s career, it’d be his solo record Foreign Intrigue. If I had to pick just one, though, it’d be Foreign Intrigue. He boldly incorporates electronic drums into a straight-ahead context. The title track opens with a 12/8 Afro-Cuban–esque jazz groove where Tony is playing Simmons toms along with his acoustic kit, and then electronic claps enter via a drum machine. It’s totally badass and forward-thinking. Foreign Intrigue was from Tony’s later career, where he was playing straight-ahead jazz on bigger, rock-sized drums, so the electronic sounds sit well with the sound of his larger acoustic kit. I’ve always been into blending acoustic and electronic drums, so I loved this album when it came out, and I still love it!" What’s Your Favorite Tony Williams Album? - Modern Drummer Magazine At the end of the day, it is what suits (and soothes) your musical taste. Sure, this record may not be for everyone (electronic drums, anyone?). But I can say that of hundreds of other records, jazz or otherwise...even classic ones! Maybe it will grow on you. Cheers.
That is a great album. I know @AnalogJ loves it, too. I reckon the cover puts many off thinking it's some 80's cheese.
After every new play of the "Blacks and Blues" , I like it more and more. Always the Strata East> "A Spirit Speaks" album comes in my mind, another beloved one. Τhe musical style is very close, especially in vocal tracks.
hey guys do you know if any of the 75th European presses are still available online? because prices are high on discogs. looking for unit structures and evolution
They are still somewhat available, but prices are now higher, my local has Evolution for 28.45 eur for example: Evolution [LP] When it first came out, it was around 17 eur.
I received Into Somethin' from amazon.ca today and the other two are on the way Into Somethin' sounds great, and the pressing is fine too.
Hey, some of the MMJ fans think the BN80 mastering is vastly inferior to that series, in spite of the fact that KG is doing the mastering for both series. Is BN80 targeting the 'Crosley Crowd"??? What do you think?
I find that the BN80s are a little thinner and brighter. My experience is that the MMJs are much more dynamic. When they’re good, you can close your eyes and imagine a band in front of you. I guess that the BN80, while excellent, never quite get me to that place. There are trade offs with both, though. MMJs are harder to come by, significantly more expensive, and I’ve had countless issues with surface noise. The BN80s that I own have all been flat and quiet, which is more than can be said for plenty of the new vinyl I buy. So yeah... I own both, but not a Crosley.
I personally struggle with chasing the best equipment and chasing the best media. At some point, I have to rein myself in and be happy with the equipment I have and stop chasing the ultimate reissue of a record and just enjoy the music. The journey to upgrade is fun for a while, but it becomes an obsession (I think I have a tendency to needlessly obsess in general ) and psychologically (and financially!) stressful. The original BNs are wonderful, MMjs are wonderful and the BN80s are wonderful, just in different ways. I have to remind myself that trade offs will always exist and that is "OK" (unless I win the Mega Millions jackpot someday ).
I actually think it has nothing to do with dynamics or what equipment people are using with these records. I seriously can’t imagine a Crosley properly tracking that trumpet on Open Sesame. Like most working artists, KG is paid to deliver what the customer/producer asks of him. He is obviously incredibly capable and technically skilled, but his success comes from being a strong collaborator. I’m not sure what Blue Note asked for with the BN80s; my guess is they wanted to capture the tone of the raw tapes without touching the dials much. In the case of most RVG stuff, this is not a warm sound. There are many skilled recording engineers in the history of jazz, but the unique energy of the Van Gelder sound lived partly in what was a two-step affair involving pretty specific mastering. Music Matters found their own strategies (which shifted and evolved over the years) for mastering RVG’s tapes and created some sonic wonders, whereas I personally think BN80 chose a less editorial approach. The problem is, these tapes weren’t really intended to be mastered that flat. As a result, (to be oversimple) some of the BN80s are little bright and cold compared to what MM or Tone Poet would do with them. Whether I like that sonic signature or not, it has zero to do with fidelity. All of these series are cut directly from the tapes. The only differences between BN80, Tone Poet, and Music Matters are creative choices, likely handed down from producer to engineer. Guess I think of mastering engineers like screenwriters. They’re paid to do a job. They find the best, most artful ways to solve problems and deliver what’s asked of them. Sometimes they’re allowed to do whatever they want, and other times they’re not. Just my two cents and total guesses.
As I've said before these tapes on MM, TPs or BN80s are definitely not mastered flat, but you are 100% on the money that all the mastering is an editorial choice.
I haven't bought a lot of BN80s where I already had the MMJ equivalent, but I generally find it difficult to believe that Don Was hired Kevin Gray (at Joe Harley's recommendation, remember) and then asked him to do one thing for the Tone Poet series and something else for the BN80 series. I think it's much more likely that Kevin Gray's approach evolved somewhat over the life of the MMJ series as he got used to RVG's tapes, and RVG's engineering choices across time, and that now, Kevin Gray is so familiar with RVG's history that he pretty much knows what any given Blue Note tape is going to need in mastering before he queues it up.
I can see your point but I also think that it’s entirely possible that Blue Note management asked for a different sonic aesthetic between BN80 and TP. I also wonder, admittedly not knowing everything that goes into mastering and cutting, that there could be a cost consideration factoring in. These folks are paid for their time, so if a TP/MMJ style mastering takes say twice as long as a BN80, then that could be in play too in order to keep the price point down on the BN80 series. Of course it’s all speculation.
Yeah, I mean people are drawing these conclusions based on their perceptions of difference between the series. It would be more useful, I think, to discuss specific titles and try to get a handle on what factors might account for the perceived differences. I mean, comparing an MMJ 45 to an MMJ 33 is rarely apples to apples because of the change in mastering personnel. For example, Dexter Gordon's Doin' Allright was done by Steve Hoffman and Kevin Gray at 45, but just Kevin Gray at 33 for the BN80 release. Same with Freddie Hubbard's Open Sesame. Gordon's A Swingin' Affair didn't have Hoffman's involvement at MMJ, but it was cut at Kevin Gray's old Acoustech Mastering room. For apples-t0-apples comparisons (setting aside the 45 versus 33 issue), comparing Kevin Gray at Cohearent to like across the MMJ and BN80 series, try: Herbie Hancock - Takin' Off Introducing Johnny Griffin Freddie Hubbard - Hub-Tones Kenny Dorham - Una Mas Art Blakey - Indestructible (33 only, not 45 which was cut with Steve Hoffman for MMJ) Herbie Hancock - Inventions and Dimensions Joe Henderson - In 'n' Out Pete La Roca - Basra Larry Young - Into Somethin' Setting aside any warble issues, if there are significant differences among those titles between the MMJ and BN80 series, that would be interesting to know. I've personally avoided duplicates in the BN80 series because I have all the MMJ titles. I did get a duplicate of Doin' Allright and Open Sesame though, to see if I could tell a difference between titles where the mastering personnel differed, and even those were very very close on my system.
I have lots of MMJs and most of the Tone Poets and BN80s. I don’t double dip so rarely have I A-B’d any of these titles, but I gotta say that Hancocks’ Takin’ Off is very Listenable as a BN80. That crap that it’s unlistenable or worse is just pure BS. It actually sounds more like the 70s pressing I used to have. I’m sure the MMJ is much better for the modern listener with a wonderful revealing stereo system. Better midrange, bass and depth; but the BN80 is a very nice sounding LP. It has a cool groove like a great party record should. Get up off your asses and Just enjoy it !
This one was my first flat-out disappointment with any KG-mastered Blue Note release. I agree that calling it "unlistenable" is a stretch, but I also agree that it sounded thinner and less natural (and far less enjoyable) than any MM (or AP, or Tone Poet) release I'd heard up to that point. Since I hadn't heard the MM version of this title, I wasn't sure if it was just an unusually badly recorded session, but those posts to which you are referring suggest that the MM on the contrary is one of the better sounding BN recordings, and what I'm hearing with the BN80 reflects a different mastering approach unique to that series. I don't recall if I noticed tape flutter or not (I'm one for whom that flaw is not always super obvious, but think I may pick up on it in a "something sounds off, not quite sure why" kind of way). TBH, I haven't risked many BN80s since--the exceptions have been Ethiopian Knights and Smoke Stack, both of which I thought sounded very good (especially the latter--the former is obviously a very different sort of recording altogether).
Inspired by recent posts, back-to-back 1961 recordings by Jackie McLean and band(s) — the superb MMJ 45, Bluesnik and one of the best-sounding BN80’s, A Fickle Sonance . . . 1961/2008 Blue Note – BST 84067, Music Matters Ltd. – MMBST-84067 Blue Note The Definitive 45 RPM Reissue Series – KPG&SH@ATM 1961/2020 Blue Note – ST-84089 Blue Note 80 Vinyl Reissue Series – KPG@CA
Although I don’t have any duplicate titles, when I jump between MMJ, AP, Tone Poet and BN80 records, I don’t perceive any difference in sound or pressing quality. They are all quiet and well mastered. The jackets are the only meaningful difference to me (which I am perfectly happy with, in the case of BN80s, given the asking price).
Happy birthday to jazz drummer and composer, Brian Blade — born 25 July, 1970. I only became aware of this album through the Blue Note 80 series . . . 1998/2020 Blue Note – 0845480 Blue Note 80 Vinyl Reissue Series – KPG@CA
Man, I've had a heckuva time with returning BN 80 releases for having damaged packaging. I think I'm at 7 returns for bent or creased album covers for the 80s. My first copy of Art Blakey's Just Coolin' from Target was pert' near bent in half- just shameful- and the replacement copy from Target, though much improved, had 2 major creases. I don't know if it's the quality of sleeves or the shipment, but I've had few BN 80's with acceptable packaging. I received another album the same day as the Blakey release, the new Margo Price record, and the album jacket is perfect. I have had problems with Tone Poets being warped, but none have had damaged jackets. Frustrating, for sure.
In my humble opinion, the only Herbie Hancock album to compare against the Takin' Off MMJ 45 RPM is the AS 45 RPM of Headhunters. We get a world of difference in the tune "Watermelon Man." Each commands a full album side. I'd say it's a toss-up between the two. Headhunters, by the way, is the only non-MMJ that I have filed with my MMJ collection. It just made sense for me to have all the Herbie Hancock 45 RPMs together. Both of these albums are fantastic! P.S. @Mazzy - nice Gretsch drums and JBLs, man!
Good for you Mazzy but both Herbie BN80s are, as far as the pitch issues are concerned, the two that I really struggle to get through both sides; a massive shame as they both delight in so many ways but not in pitch and on both side of each. The Heavenly Sweetness Inventions & Dimensions is SO much more musically coherent you’d be shocked even at the expense of a little fullness which prompted my to by a HS copy of Takin Off today. When the piano on these pressings seemingly slows and speeds up it just jars and spoils the moment for me. Other titles are less bothersome and the most recent display no such issue which leaves me positive for the future of the TP series.
