Hi Mazzy I always appreciate your contributions but you are claiming something that goes against my experience. Every flat transfer I've heard of Blue Note tapes - in the 18 years I compiled albums for them - sounded a lot like the original records - certainly the records sounded different, but the philosophy of sound was coming from the same place . I never once heard one of those transfers - be it at home on an old pair of speakers, or at Abbey Road during mastering - and said 'oh wow! that sounds very different from the record'. I know you were in the business, so maybe your experience differs when you heard them.
Then maybe I misunderstood the concept of MMJs and Tone Poets and all the interviews Ive read with Joe Harley. He has continually said that rather than emulate the original RVG releases LPs of 50s and 60s, all these new mastered MMJ and TP versions try to bring everything that’s on those original tapes different from back in the when day highs and lows were frequently rolled off to compensate for home stereos of the day. is this not the case ? You don’t hear the bass on original BN records like you hear on these new pressings. At least I don’t. Originals soundd fantastic but very different.
Or the piano and this is definitely my understanding as well. The records needed to sound good on budget tables/systems therefore he rolled off some stuff which is not the case w TP and MMJ.
I just listened to Joe's talk on the Vinyl Guide podcast yesterday (old ep from Feb. 2019) and what you've said was one of the important takeaways, for me anyway. Basically - Joe praised RVG for his genius in mastering records for their time, but modern tables are capable of much more and so MMJ/TP releases are a truer representation of what's on the master tape. And a total aside: Mazzy, I just discovered your YouTube channel and have been really enjoying. If you notice a flurry of viewership over the past week that would be me!
Ha thanks. Watch at your own peril That’s what I though Joe said about his and Kevin’s cuts. Maybe the response to my short comment was misunderstood ? Or maybe I mis typed it.
I saw Idris Muhammad play w/ Bob James in the late 70s at Town Hall in NYC. Great show and I think about it often.
Mr. DG MONO has created a website focused on RVG. The site is the results of interviews, in depth research, and the cooperation of RVGs family and the new owner of his studio. Germain to recent posts, notes on many RVG masters indicate that he employed EQ: generally Bass cut at 50hz, +5db in the mid treble, Treble cut at 12khz. He pushed recording levels as far as he could given the equipment he was using. His use of EG was both to allow for greater level before saturation, and to produce LPs that could be played on home equipment of the early to mid 50s. A remaster done as a flat transfer would sound different than a period early pressing. A current premium remaster (MM, CR, TP, and BN80) will also sound different as someone else's ears were used along with someone else's intent regarding how the reissued pressing should sound. This is a problematic issue. Classic Records reissued a lot of RCA and Mercury classical discs in the mid-late 90s. They were advertised as being mostly flat or lighlty EQd transfers from the original master tapes. Listeners were not happy. The reissues were definately 'better" in many areas, but did not sound like better versions of classic pressings. Unfortunately first pressings were made to play on vintage equipment, and comprimises were deliberately built into the mastering process.....rolled off bass and treble, and dynamic compression etc. CR removed all (or most) of the EQ and the resulting LPs were the worse for it. Later reissues were mastered to be better versions of the origional pressings. BN reissues fall into the same dilema: the original master tape in all of its glory, or a better version of what we are familiar with ?
I did a few comparisons between BN80 and 1st pressings, and TP and 1st pressings. Both are good. First pressings tend to sound more focused with a narrower spread and a bit less depth. Bass is generally not as distinct or deep. Treble and upper harmonics are the same or maybe better. 1st pressings sound a bit more "alive". BN80 and TP reissues have a wider spread (to my ears), and better soundstage imaging. Treble and upper harmonics are equal to 1st pressings, but bass is much deeper and more detailed. And of course surfaces are dead silent, which may allow some additional low level detail to be heard. The reissues sound a bit more "relaxed". If you can not afford a first or early pressing, or want to pay MM prices, the BN80 and TP pressings are the best alterntaves. They do sound better than blue/whiteB or most Japanese reissues.
I picked up Elvin Jones / Mr. Jones after watching the price for a while, it's a nice record. Steve Grossman and Elvin sound great together.
I first heard the term reading a James Blood Ulmer interview from the early 80's circa Tales Of Captain Black and Are You Glad To Be In America. The context was Blood Ulmer saying that although he played Harmolodic, he could also play 'in the pocket' as well. At the time I thought he was saying he could play conventionally within the harmony if he chose too, but reading your Idris Muhammed quote, perhaps Blood Ulmer was referring to 'the pocket' as a rhythmic or groove thing, which would make sense as well, as his music at the time often consisted of complex shifting rhythms, never settling for long in a 'pocket' groove so much.
Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers – Indestructible Song Name - Sortie 1st US Press Stereo - Vocaroo | Online voice recorder Blue Note 80 Reissue - Vocaroo | Online voice recorder Reissue sounds best to my ears
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Digging into John Scofield / Hand Jive this weekend. Fun record, I really enjoy Eddie Harris on this session.
Anybody have pressing problems with Pete La Roca Basra? Mine is perfectly flat and centered but riddled with non-fill/stitching on side one. A few seconds in and those familiar random bursts of distortion. Otherwise sounds fantastic.
not on basra, but same thing on a couple of the other releases. i've been getting that more and more recently with optimal pressings.
Was Foreign Intrigue for me -- stitching all over side 1. Didn't check it until it was too late to return. (Too much stuff coming in at the time!) Can't recall if I've had any others from Optimal with that problem. Don't have the BN80 Basra, sorry.
Last week the wife was on-line shopping and she says...hey, I'm doing an Amazon order and you have a record in the cart. I'd forgotten all about it so I told her to go ahead and order it. Arrived this morning and NP. Everything is great! It has a plastic lined paper inner sleeve and it slid out static free and clean...so clean I didn't even brush it...unusual....made in Germany sticker on back, flat,centered, and great sounding...a BN 80 walk off homer.
What a find this forum is. Just taken stock of my first ten from the Classic and BN80 series. Too early to comment, listened to all yesterday but didn't really have the right ears on! Anyway, a question: as more and more copies are cut from the acetate does the quality diminish i.e. is it better to buy earlier rather than later, and if so what differences would be expected?
Apparently, yes. Stampers (or whatever they are called) are replaced after x thousand LPs have been pressed. Suggests there may be a difference between those pressed at the beginning and end of a stamper's life. I would guess it is a matter of chance whether you get early or late copies, though. Anyone more knowledgeable please step in.
I very much doubt that Universal are skimping and using the stampers beyond their useful life, funnily enough Blue Note and major bands aside a lot of current vinyl is pressed in quantities far lower than the useful stamper life, so stamper wear is rarely an issue. As for which pressing will likely be best, my money would be on somewhere near the middle of the batch when everything is warmed up and up to speed, but the stampers are still relatively fresh, unfortunately unless you work in the pressing plant you don't get to choose.
Ironic that it appears the only person in this conversation who has heard the tapes feels original pressings sound similar. I'll join the club of amateurs who claim to know what the tapes sound like ( ). As such, I can only compare the originals to reissues that were made with the intention of doing a relatively flat transfer. My understanding is many BN reissue programs have aimed to do this. IME, the original pressings are the most "dramatic" sounding of all BN issues I've heard, vinyl and digital. As Hoffman has said, and as those original RVG mastering notes he found said--and I completely agree--originals have attenuated bass, attenuated treble, a presence bump at 5-6k, and significant peak limiting. In 2004 Rudy said he always mastered with radio in mind, and to me both those mastering notes and the sound of the originals fit that description to a tee. It's a sound that to my ears sounds a lot different than most (if not all) reissues. It has its advantages. It also has its disadvantages. Reissues are no different. In fact, no recording, no mastering of a recording is perfect. Everything has strengths and weaknesses. For example, an important strength of originals is they were made when the master tape was fresh. Conversely, that's often a weakness of reissues. OTOH, reissues often are more dynamic sounding and have that low-end boom and top-end sheen that originals don't. (Side note of personal opinion: I think the matter of dynamics vs a more compressed sound is a very subjective matter of taste, but who would argue with the added low end and top end of most reissues?) If you haven't checked out rvglegacy.org, do it!
I wonder if anyone here owns Lee Morgan's The Sidewinder reel from The Tape Project Lee MorganThe Sidewinder | The Tape Project and maybe compare it to the other LP pressings. Going by the FAQ page on The Tape Project's website, this is probably the closest to the original master tape we will ever get.
