Bluesound Node 2i, using direct USB HDD source

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by hacksaw99, Sep 17, 2020.

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  1. hacksaw99

    hacksaw99 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Arizona
    I've gone through that realllly long Node 2i thread and there are conflicting posts about operating in this mode. I'll be operating just in this mode initially, possibly years, but want the option to subscribe to streaming services in the future.

    If you have experience operating in this mode, could you please chime in with you experience, especially on:

    >>ease of setting up and playing multiple play lists from the USB HDD as the source,

    >>and random/shuffle play (what exactly are the limitations on how you choose the scope of what files/albums on the USB HDD get shuffled)

    I've seen this article: How USB Storage Differs From A Local Library
    "HOW USB STORAGE DIFFERS FROM A LOCAL LIBRARY"

    But it was last updated 3 years ago, so I wonder if they have 'improved' any of the prior limitations in this mode?

    It mentions 'indexing instability' but I don't know what that means, i.e. what happens and what do you do if it happens?

    It also mentions "USB Mass storage devices are designed for plug-and-play storage, not for an extended or permanent storage solution," which makes no sense. USB has no such limitation, and certain hard drives are designed for long-term always-on use, so the statement isn't true at face value. It seems they have chosen these limitations?

    Their recommended "more stable, permanent solution" is network sharing, but that isn't a viable option for me at present.

    I can live with the indexing time issue (about half the speed of a networked storage indexing and has to re-index "every time the device is re-inserted" which makes sense in principle), as long as that's the extent of the limitation and no other associated issues. Are there others?

    Bottom line: If I go with the Bluesound Node 2i, I'd be reliant on the direct-attached USB/SATA HDD or SSD, and would like to know what limitations others who have run in this mode have encountered.
     
  2. hacksaw99

    hacksaw99 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Arizona
    And a follow-up question: Does anyone know if these streamer boxes in general are designed to treat a USB-connected HDD music source as sort of a second-class citizen, with lesser user-interface control compared to network-attached local music sources? In other words, is this issue unique to the Bluesound node 2i?

    Besides the Bluesound node 2i, the other two I'm considering are the Cambridge CXN V2 series 2, and the Pro-ject Stream Box S2 Ultra (paired w/ external DAC, probably the Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital because they were designed to pair together). But there's little in the way of user-interface info or videos for USB HDSD music sources and limitations thereof.
     
  3. rodentdog

    rodentdog Senior Member

    Buy the Vault2i.
     
    Tim 2 likes this.
  4. Apesbrain

    Apesbrain Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    No reason to believe so.
    If you can afford it, this is good advice. Note that the Vault requires a wired network connection.
     
  5. hacksaw99

    hacksaw99 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Arizona
    re: Note that the Vault requires a wired network connection.

    That's not an option for me. It's why I'm asking about the direct USB HDD connection as the music file source.
     
  6. psulioninks

    psulioninks Forum Resident

    Location:
    KC Chiefs Kingdom
    They have also chosen to limit the file size for artwork - or else it won't display.

    I think one needs to keep in mind that these machines are like computers which operate with software/apps designed to run them. How they were developed and the design choices made had to be based on what their vision of their product would be in the hands of a consumer...and only they can answer that question.

    My guess is, most of these units were designed as hardware for streaming via a music service. The other features were secondary "add-ons".
     
  7. psulioninks

    psulioninks Forum Resident

    Location:
    KC Chiefs Kingdom
    @hacksaw99 What are you planning to store on your external drive? CD rips? How many?
     
  8. hacksaw99

    hacksaw99 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Arizona
    CD rips, and digitized (via my Tascam) vinyl, old cassettes and VHF HiFi audio recordings. I'm 80% certain the final total will be under 256GB, and 99% certain it will be under 500GB.
     
  9. psulioninks

    psulioninks Forum Resident

    Location:
    KC Chiefs Kingdom
    Then I agree with @rodentdog - the Vault 2i is probably the best choice for you as it has a 2TB internal drive that will be more than enough for your storage needs. The main reason to use a device that allows for attached storage is if the size of your library is large and you need more space than what an internal storage solution would offer.
     
    Tim 2 likes this.
  10. hacksaw99

    hacksaw99 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Arizona
    You might have missed my earlier post but Vault is not an option for me. If I had an ethernet jack at the wall behind my entertainment center I wouldn't be asking about direct USB HDD.
     
  11. Apesbrain

    Apesbrain Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    Consider Powerline:
    https://www.amazon.com/Powerline-Ethernet-Adapter-Extender-TP-Link/dp/B084CZMYNM

    Use your portable drive to backup your Vault library and keep it at the office or with a friend/family member. Another option is to plug your external drive into the back of your router if it supports file sharing as many newer ones do. This should allow the Node to work in "Network Share" mode. Still should have an off-site backup though.
     
    sotosound and rodentdog like this.
  12. psulioninks

    psulioninks Forum Resident

    Location:
    KC Chiefs Kingdom
    But you're asking for recommendations on what device will work well with attached storage. If there are instability issues with these units and their use of such attachments...then why wouldn't a device with an internal drive be an option? In other words...what does an ethernet input on the unit have to do with external vs. internal storage given your needs?
     
  13. hacksaw99

    hacksaw99 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Arizona
    I'm asking about storage directly plugged into the node 2i, and, the node 2i has to be located at my entertainment center so that I can plug the analog outputs into my preamp.

    A vault would also need to be located at my entertainment center so I could plug the analog outputs to my preamp. That means I'd need an ethernet jack behind my entertainment center so that the vault could plug into that ethernet jack, and that jack would go back to my router. But even if I had an ethernet jack behind the entertainment center, the next level problem is I have no more ethernet ports available on my router, which is located in a "router closet" on the other side of the house where all the cat6 cables from the rest of the house converge. And that's not even considering the $1400 price tag for the Vault.
     
  14. DigMyGroove

    DigMyGroove Forum Resident

    The Powerline adapter is an excellent suggestion, I use this model, the TP-Link AV2000. It has two ethernet ports on the bottom, allowing me to add a WiFi router to each and where needed a hardwired ethenet connection.. I've installed four of them in my house. I have two kids online all day doing remote learning, plus my wife, and myself working from home beginning next week (after six months of pandemic induced unemployment). I now have four separate WiFi networks in the house, each TP-Link has an Airport Extreme or Airport Express attached, and my bedroom Apple TV 4K is connected by ethernet cable for better stability. Set up is fairly easy, though which outlet you can successfully sync to the main one from can take some experimentation.
     
  15. psulioninks

    psulioninks Forum Resident

    Location:
    KC Chiefs Kingdom
    You are probably best served to just purchase a Node 2i and see if it works the way you want it to and if you can live with it. Companies like Crutchfield have a 60 day return policy...that should be enough time for you to make a decision based on your needs.
     
    Melvin likes this.
  16. hacksaw99

    hacksaw99 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Arizona
    Really? You can return for any reason, and no restocking fee? That's an interesting thought, and it's not like I haven't tried to figure out whether it will work for me in advance.
    Is Crutchfield pretty good to deal with for audio/electronic components?
     
  17. psulioninks

    psulioninks Forum Resident

    Location:
    KC Chiefs Kingdom
    I have not returned anything to them...but I know it's one of their big selling points, and they have been around forever. I would trust the return process with anything purchased from Crutchfield, Music Direct or Audio Advisor.

    Returns - Support by Crutchfieldâ„ 
     
    Melvin and rcsrich like this.
  18. hacksaw99

    hacksaw99 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Arizona
    I know next to nothing about NAS so this is probably a dumb question, but could I buy something like this Synology DS120j 1-bay NAS
    https://www.amazon.com/Synology-DS1...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=889RH4KXCN5FVBF1T22X
    along with a NAS HDD (roughly $200-300 total cost depending on which models) and operate it in a peer to peer mode, directly plugged (via ethernet cable) into and co-located with the Node 2i?

    I'd probably need to first (temporarily) attach it to my router so I could use one of the ethernet-connected PC's in the house as the admin console to configure the NAS settings, and after configuring the NAS, disconnect it and reconnect it directly to the node 2i.
    But I don't even know if operating a NAS device like this in peer to peer mode is even possible?
     
  19. Apesbrain

    Apesbrain Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    ^ Buy a cheap network switch and connect the NAS to your router. Or, find a NAS with ethernet pass-through.

    The NAS will then be available to any device on your network.
     
  20. hacksaw99

    hacksaw99 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Arizona
    Doesn't that leave me with the same problem? The NAS wouldn't be connected to the node 2i because no ethernet near the node 2i (and I don't want to use wifi to the node 2i)

    FYI if it helps, my router is an Asus N66-R: https://www.asus.com/us/Networking/RTN66R/ but as mentioned I have no free ethernet ports. Is that what you're recommending the network switch for (to multiplex one of the router's ethernet ports into say 4 more ethernet ports)?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  21. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    After some research, about a year ago I bought a Node 2i with the specific intention of running a HDD with it. I'm not a computer guy so it took me a few tries to get my music, almost 1TB to play through it. Once I figured it out it worked ok, but I found it a pain to navigate with either an ipad, or my phone. If it was the only means I had to listen to the files, I would've made due, and probably gotten used to it.

    For clarification, my files are all AIFFs ripped from cds. I have all files loaded to an ipod with 1TB of storage. The ipod feeds a device which sends the digital signal to my dac. Navigating the ipod is much easier than the files on the Node 2i.

    The Node 2i is now only used to stream; the HDD is no longer in use.
     
  22. psulioninks

    psulioninks Forum Resident

    Location:
    KC Chiefs Kingdom
    The user interface for these apps are a big deal - and it's hard to get a consensus on which is the best. I think people just have to try them out to see if the functionality makes sense to them. What works for me may not seem logical to you at all.
     
    timind likes this.
  23. ds58

    ds58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston MetroWest
    @hacksaw99 -

    The Vault 2 with a powerline ethernet adapter is an excellent suggestion, but you mentioned that this equipment is in an entertainment center - do you have a TV there, and (more importantly) a cable TV outlet?

    If yes, then you can get a faster and much more solid ethernet connection with a MOCA adapter. For me, powerline is the last resort because it can be flaky and cause noise in some active speakers and subwoofers...

    Let us know if you do have a CATV outlet nearby, and I can give you more info... good luck!
     
  24. CarterSkye

    CarterSkye Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    I was in the same situation as @hacksaw99 for a few years, frustrated that no one in real life nor online could warrant the dependability of a USB HDD. I suspect it's because no one at Bluesound nor stereo shops would officially endorse for fear of accidentally steering a customer toward potentially wiping out a large hard drive's worth of music. For years I used a Raspberry Pi3 instead for streaming my FLACs to the stereo, but when I came into some gift money this past Christmas, I plunged into the Bluesound Node 2i.

    Compared to the Pi3, the device performs very well. I rely almost solely on my 5TB hard drive (I use a Seagate powered external drive), but I do stream from services as well (I'm particularly chuffed with the ability to stream the Neil Young Archives through the Node 2i).

    Nine months later, I'm very satisfied with the performance. Occasionally I am annoyed that it will ask to update when I don't really want to, which forces a re-indexing post-update, but in those moments I'll put on a record instead.

    A NAS would be ideal if you were constantly updating your music library on the hard drive (i.e. adding CD rips or online purchases, which would necessitate unplugging the hard drive from the Node 2i, plugging it into your laptop, transferring the files and placing them in proper folders, then re-plugging it into the Node 2i, which would spark a re-indexing); as well, many of the experts I have encountered in the at-home digital experience are adept at building a NAS, which is likely the reason why they don't fuss with answering the questions about plugging in a USB HDD.

    From your assessment of the FLAC files you own, a 1TB hard drive would be just fine and would index pretty quickly.

    I'll add that my 5TB is an extra hard drive and I have my music backed up on other hard drives as well. Take the warning about USB hard drives as just a caveat: In my humble opinion, as long as you have a back up elsewhere, then an external drive is a fine and stable source (and you just have to accept that hard drives WILL fail and that you'll have to replace it one day).

    Another note on my humility: NAS would also be ideal because a semi-expert set up would entail redundant back up drives, so one wouldn't have to worry about catastrophic failure. The humble part is that I tried three different NAS drives at Christmas 2019 (before purchasing the Node 2i) and I was not satisfied with any of them. I personally found the user interfaces to be overly challenging and the drives to be overly loud. And I wasn't willing to spend more and more money get an easier NAS solution to work.

    As to your main questions:

    >>ease of setting up and playing multiple play lists from the USB HDD as the source

    SUPER EASY!

    >>and random/shuffle play (what exactly are the limitations on how you choose the scope of what files/albums on the USB HDD get shuffled)

    I can play albums or playlists on shuffle, but it doesn't seem to have a "Shuffle All" function like the iPods.

    Bottom Line: The Node 2i is worth the $599 to fulfil the basic needs that you stated above. BUT MAKE SURE THE HDD HAS OR IS A BACK UP FOR YOUR VALUABLE MUSIC FILES!
     
    timind likes this.
  25. Doug_B

    Doug_B Time Traveler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    OP: It sounds like you're feeding all the Ethernet endpoints in your house directly from the single router in the closet, which has no spare ports. Per Apesbrain's suggestion, an Ethernet switch collocated with the router would give you more ports. If you still have an issue concerning support of an Ethernet port in your entertainment room, possibly due to run length from the closet, note that it's not necessary that all Ethernet endpoints be connected directly to a centralized router / switch in that closet. You can deploy one or more additional Ethernet switches closer to your entertainment room to support such devices. For example, if you already have an Ethernet cable run to a room adjacent to the entertainment room, a switch deployed in that room would then require a new run just from that room's new switch to the entertainment room.

    I have my house set up with numerous Gigabit Ethernet switches. I actually have no Ethernet endpoints connected directly to my router, just a single Ethernet switch to one of its LAN ports (+ its WAN port connected to the cable modem). I thus cascade Ethernet cables from one switch to another for the two floors in my house to provide coverage where needed. I also use a NAS to store my audio files, which is connected to a switch in a different room from my entertainment room, and the entertainment room has another switch that connects to 2 Oppo players that access the files.

    The Powerline Ethernet Adapter solution is another possibility, but you haven't provided feedback re this option yet.

    Doug
     
    Bevok likes this.
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