Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Dave Gilmour's Cat, Nov 2, 2016.
So far, there’s this:
and track 4 of this:
Other than that, there’s just this:
& Some Wittmark demos?
Thanks! Looks like I'll have to create a Spotify playlist for all these 64 tracks from different sources...
Follow the transitions:
I would like to apologise sincerely to Jeff Slate for the crass comments I made about his liner notes in Post #11306 above. The supercilious tone was uncalled for and is not typical of my usual demeanour. I have reported my post and hope that it can be removed.
I'm grateful to the moderator(s) for carrying this out so promptly and I'm happy to be Back on the Tracks...
¿You've seen PARIS, TEXAS (1984)?
Written by Sam Shepard, starring Harry Dean Stanton, directed by Werner Herzog.
do you perceive a creative connection to the album Blood On the Tracks?
Wrong German director. Paris, TX was directed by Wim Wenders.
Of course. I have Hertzog on the brain lately because I've been watching
his films. But I think Wenders and Shepard had Blood On the Tracks in
mind when they crafted Paris, Texas.
I break it up like this:
Session 1 09-16-74
Mostly just feeling things out, very first take of If You See Her Say Hello is amazing, interesting arrangements on some of the initial Simple Twist Of Fate versions (actual alternate takes), and he absolutely nails Lily, Rosemary & The Jack Of Hearts, to the point where further takes are not attempted in subsequent sessions. The legendary take for Idiot Wind (stripped, spooky organ, alternate organ, etc) took place on the final day, and not 09-16-74 as indicated on numerous Dylan sessionographies. Not much else is notable here - Meet Me In The Morning and Call Letter Blues were never my cup of tea.
Session 2 09-17-74
This is where he really starts to catch fire, with definitive versions of the following tracks: You’re A Big Girl Now, Shelter From The Storm, and You’re Gonna Make Me Lonesome When You Go. And I love this version of Spanish Is The Loving Tongue more than I could ever express in words. I realize that it’s a bit sloppy because it was more of a rehearsal than anything else, but it’s so heartfelt, and the emotional anguish as exhibited on You’re A Big Girl Now is present here. You could put together a 09-16-74 disc and it will be enjoyable all the way through with the various alternate takes. Absolutely wonderful alternate take of Tangled Up In Blue as well - one that’s present on numerous bootlegs, and a strong #2 to the definitive 09-19-74 take.
Session 3 09-18-74
Not much going on, 4 takes of Buckets Of Rain and then he pulled the plug.
Session 4 09-19-74
One of the all time great sessions of Bob Dylan’s career, with definitive versions of Tangled Up In Blue, Idiot Wind, Up To Me, Simple Twist Of Fate, and Buckets Of Rain. He attempts to improve on the 09-17-74 version of You’re A Big Girl Now, which is simply impossible. The entire session is enjoyable from start to finish.
So there you have it. A legendary 4 day period from September 1974, not to be surpassed by anything else in the history of recorded music as far as I’m concerned.
And no, I can’t sit through the Minnesota recordings. Why mess with perfection?
Wonderful post, except for the last sentence which I vehemently disagree with.
I'm as enthralled by Meet Me In The Morning and Call Letter Blues as by the
rest of the songs, and takes.
I didn't want to start a new thread to ask this, and as it partly pertains to this set, I'll ask it here. As of last year, I finally took the plunge and started listening to Dylan. I've enjoyed the complete album collection, and just recently decided to get the bootleg series. I have 1-3, 8 and the deluxe Another Self Portrait. I plan to get them all, deluxe for The Basement Tapes and Trouble No More. But I'm on the fence for this one and The Cutting Edge. What holds me back is the multiple takes of those songs. So I guess my question is, other than the books, what makes it worth having the deluxe as opposed to the 1-2 disc option?
In both cases, the multiple takes of the songs are exactly what makes the deluxe* versions worth having.
Almost every take has something different to offer. You don’t have to play them all in sequence but, if you do, you’ll gain a greater appreciation of each of the sessions.
(* In the case of The Cutting Edge, the Collector’s Edition).
These are the ones you want:
Just wondering if anyone can help. When I was following this thread around the time of the 'More Blood More Tracks' release, a forum member created and posted a wonderful A4-sized track listing which included notes about which takes were previously released, etc.
I printed it out at the time and it was a much easier and handier guide to the set than the cumbersome track listing in the book. Unfortunately I have since lost that sheet and can't remember which forum member posted it. Is there anyone who can point me to where, in this gigantic thread, it can be found? Many thanks.
Reflex in Newcastle-upon-Tyne is selling the 6 CD box for £30 if anyone is needing a bargain priced copy ...
I have to disagree with these. With the best early concerts - specifically the Gaslight Cafe, Town Hall '63 and Carnegie Hall '63 - you can get them complete and in their entirety (and almost entirely from the original master or close to it), so that devalues those live compilations quite a bit. And taking the Cutting Edge and complete live 1966 box sets into account, that makes the No Direction Home soundtrack pretty redundant as well.
The best of the Witmark Demos and the best non-album songs featured on it are collected on other compilations any Dylan fan should have, and most of the performances are a little perfunctory (not surprising given the nature of those recordings), so it's not all that essential IMHO.
And More Blood, More Tracks doesn't have the original LP mixes of the NY version, and I'd rather hear that than the box set any day. Even the great outtake "Up to Me" was mixed better on Biograph - I'm not a fan of the dry, work-in-progress sound they gave the new mixes for that set.
The Gaslight Cafe, Town Hall '63 and Carnegie Hall '63 have not been officially released in
their entirety. One can assemble two thirds of Town Hall '63 and Carnegie Hall '63 from
different official releases, but to hear them in entirety, one has to go to unofficial bootlegs
which the official Bootleg Series does not acknowledge, nor should it. In the past the Dylan
organization has cherry-picked songs from these concerts for various compilations. They
seem to be resisting the idea of a complete, uncut, continuous concert in which each song
performance contributes to the overall statement and live experience.
The Gaslight Cafe tapes have been remastered from the masters for the first time and may
contain more songs than currently circulate in either world. In either case a remastered
edition is certainly called for. Unofficial releases all sound over-processed and metallic to
me compared to a reel tape I obtained in the 1970s which sounds about the same as the
first BOB DYLAN LP in terms of acoustic warmth and presence. It's incomplete, but the
incomplete official releases don't compare to it.
Royal Festival Hall '64, which you didn't object to, was thrown away on a vinyl-only
copyright protection set in 300 copies in Europe, with gaps and fades between the tracks
and Dylan's talking to the audience missing. It was also slightly speeded-up. However, a
partial tape consisting of four songs appeared on an unofficial bootleg about a year earlier,
in better sound and at the correct speed. It is a richer and more nuanced performance than
Philharmonic Hall '64; Baez isn't there to make Dylan nervous and high-pitched. It's a
better concert than Philharmonic Hall on every level.
Cherry-picking songs out of a concert has a way of trivializing both the songs and the
concert. When you hear how each song fits in its place between the other songs the
performance comes alive, and they won't seem so perfunctory to you. Town Hall '63,
Carnegie Hall '63 and Royal Festival Hall '64 weren't just memorable concerts. From a
cultural perspective they are important events in 1960s music. I'll go out on a limb here
and say why: these are holy performances. Dylan is still deeply committed to social
justice and the protest movement. He's immersed in it. His singing and guitar-strumming
are more than technically accomplished. There is a genuineness and sweetness to his
performances that audience responds to. Dylan creates a shared sense of spirit and
solidarity. The audience hangs on to every word of every song and demonstrates their
appreciation with spontaneous, thunderous applause. When Dylan leaves the stage it's
I've heard solo acoustic concerts of the period from Nina Simone, Odetta, Baez, Seeger,
Rev. Gary Davis, The Weavers, Skip James, and others. The Gaslight Tapes, Town Hall
'63, Carnegie Hall '63 and Royal Festival Hall '63 belong to that very special time and
movement, except they are infinitely better concerts because they're the young Bob
Dylan at a creative peak. You'd have to be insensitive not to hear what makes these
shows special. They merit stand-alone releases with Dylan's verbal interaction and
audience response intact, but without gaps and fades between the tracks, and all the
songs in proper order, remastered from the best source. It just stuns me that people
are not demanding these shows more vocally.
If you're worried about these shows delaying or canceling out Bootleg Series sets,
forget it. They don't have to be released in the Bootleg Series. They can just be long
Eventually Sony themselves released them as part of their copyright dump, did they not?
The only show I would really recommend is the one that was sampled for Starbucks, and nearly all of it was put on that CD in close to the best sound possible. (Add "No More Auction Block" from BS1-3 too, even if it doesn't sound on par with the Starbucks CD.) The remainder was eventually put on a copyright dump, though if memory serves it wasn't on par with the Starbucks CD's quality either. Regardless, not difficult to obtain in traded boots pieced together from the best sources. I didn't bother waiting, and no one has to, you can get them in minutes.
Again, for the upteenth time, the copyright "dumps" were incomplete, with missing
songs, missing audience interaction and Dylan speak, with gaps and fades between
tracks, from inferior tapes, with no mixing and sometimes sped-up to fit on a side.
They were released on vinyl in 300 copies or less in Europe and priced high, out of
reach of American fans. When unofficial bootleggers cloned the sets they repeated
all the same mistakes.
You mean the only show you would recommend or the only CD you'd recommend?
If you can't hear what makes these complete concerts special and worth preserving
and disseminating intact maybe you should leave this topic alone.
Again, for the upteenth time, the Starbucks CD of The Gaslight tapes is incomplete
and heavily edited with some of the best songs left out. For all we know a complete
Gaslight Cafe collection would add up to 2 or more discs.
That's a shame, but honestly, most people I know grabbed that leak from ten years ago that is pretty much as good as it gets, even in mono, and it's not hard to find.
Wow, seriously that's how you respond? Real pleasant.
Also, your exasperation is itself tiresome when you've quoted the part where I mention the missing "best" songs and how they were obtainable elsewhere.
Your dismissal of these concerts as viable releases is exasperating.
They're as good as the albums he released between 1962 and 1964.
Yes they are obtainable elsewhere but no one should have to go to
unauthorized sources for a complete tape or missing songs. Besides
I'd rather spend my money on the authorized, official source which
will be superior quality if done right. Bootleg downloads are always
second best at best compared to a Columbia / Sony release.
The Gaslight Cafe tapes, Town Hall '63, Carnegie Hall '63 and Royal
Festival Hall '64 should be officially released, intact, complete, uncut,
continuous, mastered from the best source tapes, packaged in a way
that evokes the time, place and occasion and annotated by someone
who knows what's what. Dylan fans will respond with their money.
There are still unique songs in No Direction Home. It's a terrific documentary and
the soundtrack is still vital, regardless of some repetition on The Cutting Edge and
1966 Live Recordings. Likewise Live 1962-1966 Rare Performances From The
Copyright Collections is a well-selected sampler of Dylan's best performances from
the period but not only his best performances but there are better and different
performances that no less impressive. I'm sure Rosen and Dylan mean for the
sampler to fulfill audience demand, but instead, the tracks selected just whet the
appetite and increase the need for more. I'm not against compilations, I just want
to listen to the whole concert as well.
Check out the discussion on this thread:
Bob Dylan – Live 1962–1966: Rare Performances from the Copyright Collections [2018 2-CD release] *
All the Witmark Demos are essential. None of the songs are perfunctory. I've talked
about how Dylan's cold readings (for copyright and publishing purposes) invest the
lyrics with a stoic quality that is quite affecting. I guess one is either into the music,
or not. I stand by the recommendations to the BigBadWolf.
Separate names with a comma.