Bob Dylan - Bootleg Series Vol. XII "The Cutting Edge"*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Abbey Road, Oct 16, 2014.

  1. supermd

    supermd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Campbell, CA
    How were they recorded?
     
  2. Joey_Corleone

    Joey_Corleone Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rockford, MI
    1965 is probably my all time favorite Bob Dylan year. I have always hoped for a bootleg series sourced from a ‘65 UK soundboard
     
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  3. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    [​IMG]

    Finally, a useful suggestion!
     
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  4. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    by John Alderson -- who built the sound system for the tour -- in mono on a reel-to-reel
    tape deck patched into the soundboard.

    And by the film crew making Dont Look Back.

    Others more knowledgeable may want to chime in with more precise information?
     
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  5. supermd

    supermd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Campbell, CA
    Excellent. Thank you. I'd love a full concert or two... or three... or
     
  6. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    Manchester 1965 has been widely bootlegged. Look it up on bobboots.com

    Surely The 1965 Live Recordings download offered to those who purchased the
    big blue box circulates among collectors; you might ask some of the collectors
    here. It was never properly mixed and mastered they just slapped it together
    and threw it out over the internet with gaps and fades between the tracks and
    audience interaction edited out. But the sound is very good, if low in volume.

    Plus I couldn't live without this: Bob Dylan - The 1965 Soundboard Recordings

    I should have bought a second copy as a backup when it was widely available.
     
  7. supermd

    supermd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Campbell, CA
    I'm waiting for the bolded above to happen in some form.
     
  8. Lonson

    Lonson Don't Get Around Much Anymore

    I'm living without it and wish I weren't.
     
  9. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    Well, the Ginsberg tapes of two December concerts weren't in it.
    But some enterprising company put this out:

    Bob Dylan - The Ginsberg Tapes 1965

    Dylan and the Hawks helped him with an microphone and talk to him backstage.
    The tapes need to be properly mastered and released by the Dylan team.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  10. DotKom11

    DotKom11 Forum Resident

    Why was only one song from the July 25 Newport Folk Festival released on the 1965 copyright dump? I know Maggie's Farm was released on BS Vol 7 but I really want a copy of Like A Rolling Stone from that show. I can't believe the entire historical moment has not been officially released. So what's the best bootleg for Newport 65 in terms of sound quality and completeness?
     
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  11. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    Everybody is asking that question. I don't know.
    It could be they like to torment us.

    Passed Over and Rolling Thunder, a vinyl boot, has the complete uninterrupted soundboard
    tape. I've always suspected it was recorded by John Alderson himself; no one's ever asked
    him about it, that I know of. You can find a dozen different unofficial CD's on ebay of Newport
    1965, just type it into the search mode. So far as I know they all break up the sequence in one
    way or another, or separate or omit the two acoustic tracks at the end. The box-set posted above
    has the complete sequence but I'm forgetting now if there are gaps and fades between tracks
    on that particular disc.

    Newport 65 has been officially released on the badly botched concert film The Other Side of
    the Mirror
    . The concert comes in stops and starts and is incomplete:

    https://www.amazon.com/Other-Side-Mirror-Festival-1963-1965/dp/B004Q8FTEE/

    Also, Scorsese glides over Newport 65 in his masterful documentary No Direction Home:

    https://www.amazon.com/No-Direction-Home-Documentary-Blu-ray/dp/B01LG041KM/
     
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  12. DotKom11

    DotKom11 Forum Resident

    Thanks for the great info Richard! I appreciate it and I'll check out your suggestions.

    And yes, sadly, they do love to torment us.
     
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  13. Marty T

    Marty T Stereo Fan

    Yeah, I do along with this. In particular, the "Blood on the Tracks" Test Pressing from this year's Record Store Day is such a wonderfully great and solidly listenable alternate version of the celebrated album (I wasn't fortunate enough to score that RSD LP but there have been excellent needle drops made available on that famous auction site). I haven't quite been able to assemble that from the Cutting Edge set - not that I've tried very hard. That said, it's great to be a fly on the wall for those classic sessions.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
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  14. Percy Song

    Percy Song Tom's Tambourine Man


    I think you are confusing '65 with '66, Richard.

    Richard Alderson was the sound man who built the sound system for the '66 tour and recorded it on a Nagra reel-to-reel for the film "Eat The Document." The '65 tour was (also) filmed by Pennebaker for the film "Dont Look Back". The '65 concerts, I think, are mono PA or audience recordings. Maybe there is a stereo PA recording in there somewhere. I don't think there was anyone from the record company recording them. Could be wrong.

    Nonetheless, I agree wholeheartedly that whatever tapes exist of the UK '65 tour have been treated reprehensibly by Team Bob. It's good that the copyright was protected with the mp3 dump, though; it indicates that Team Bob just might have plans for them in the future.
     
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  15. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    Thanks Percy, but I must beg to differ on some crucial points.
    Somewhere in the backpages is a breakdown of the tapes by Sandy Gant alias lowgen.
    Richard Alderson started recording for the house as early as 1962; the Gaslight Cafe was the house.
    He recorded for other cafes and coffee houses as well, but no one has documented the full range of his work.
    By 1963 or 1964 at the latest he was working for agent Albert Grossman recording live shows for Grossman's clients.

    The Dylan organization has never actually stated what's what, but some facts are known.
    The following 1965 concerts are professional line recordings, patched from the soundboard into a reel-to-reel.
    These are sometimes referred to as PA (Public Address System) tapes but in concerts PA systems need a soundboard.
    Additionally, D.A. Pennebaker's film crew also recorded the concerts for the film Dont Look Back:

    30 April 1965 - The Oval, City Hall -- Sheffield, England.
    1 May 1965 - Odeon Theater -- Liverpool, England.
    2 May 1965 - De Montfort Hall -- Leicester, England.
    5 May 1965 - Town Hall -- Birmingham, England.
    7 May 1965 - Free Trade Hall -- Manchester, England.
    9 May 1965 - Royal Albert Hall, London, England.
    10 May 1965 - Royal Albert Hall -- London, England.


    July 24, 1965 - Freebody Park -- Newport, Rhode Island > Newport Folk Festival.
    note: workshop performances
    July 25, 1965 - Freebody Park -- Newport, Rhode Island > Newport Folk Festival.
    note: the uninterrupted concert and tape lasts about 28 minutes.
    September 3, 1965 - Hollywood Bowl -- Los Angeles, CA.

    The following home recording is patched from the TV headphone jack into a reel-to-reel:
    1 June 1965 - BBC Studios, London, England.
    note: the complete uninterrupted recording lasts about 66-71 minutes.

    The following are audience tapes:

    27 March 1965 - Civic Auditorium -- Santa Monica, CA.
    28 August 1965 - Forest Hills Tennis Stadium -- Forest Hills, Long Island, NY.
    29 or 31 October 1965 - Back Bay Theater -- Boston, MA.

    note: incomplete or fragmentary.
    30 October 1965 - Bushnell Memorial Hall -- Hartford, CT.
    note: incomplete
    11 December 1965 - Masonic Memorial Temple -- San Francisco, CA.
    recorded by Allen Ginsberg with Dylan's permission and help.
    12 December 1965 - Civic Auditorium -- San Jose, CA.
    recorded by Allen Ginsberg with Dylan's permission and help.

    My list is not perfect, but the basic facts are correct.
    I don't believe the Dylan organization cares about the 1965 tapes. After slapping together The
    1965 Live Recordings
    download with no mixing or mastering, and with no illustration or
    annotation, they lost interest. They made good tapes sound bad. They made brilliant
    performances sound bad. Now they regard the public demand as satisfied and commercial
    potential as filled. They were so obsessed with the 1966 tapes they basically trashed the 1965
    tours. They just wanted to get it out of the way. They certainly created a bad impression among
    the public where there once existed a favorable if not awestruck impression of the 1965 tour.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
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  16. Percy Song

    Percy Song Tom's Tambourine Man


    I think we agree on most of the above, @Richard--W, PA tapes do exist for the UK shows. But, specifically, I was responding to your previous post regarding Richard Alderson's involvement, and I'm saying that Richard was not involved in recording Bob's 1965 concerts.

    I daresay Richard will document the full range of his work in his book, "Open The Door, Richard", whenever it is published, presumably whenever his "Gaslight Tapes" are released by Team Bob / Sony. When I questioned him about the latter, in May last year, he wrote to me:-

    "Yes, I found excellent one-offs made by me at the time, that sound truly amazing. The exact, correct, & true story will accompany them and will also be in my book “Open The Door, Richard”, the cover of which I plan to look something like this:


     
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  17. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    Understood, Percy. Alderson was not involved in the 1965 tours.

    In my experience the person writing the autobiography doesn't think in terms of
    a discographer or list maker. I've had experience in these matters. I look forward
    to Alderson's book but I doubt if he will date or list precisely. Someone has to
    interview Alderson and nail down the name of the act, dates, places, and whether
    or not it was taped, and where the tapes are now. If he's waiting for the release of
    the Gaslight tapes he's making a big mistake. To rely on the Dylan group is to rely
    on quicksand, or at least liquid mercury.
     
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  18. LonesomeDayBlues

    LonesomeDayBlues Forum Resident

    Location:
    Long Beach, CA
    Richard I enjoy most of your contributions however your feeling toward Dylan management is somewhat off imo. They have given us a lot when it comes to Dylan. I obviously participate in a lot of threads and even non-Dylan fans note how Dylan's approach to his archival recordings is much better than Springsteen, Macca, etc. Sure there have been some issues and missteps but overall they have been adding to his legacy. Take for example your feeling about 1965 live shows. They secured the copyright with those mp3s. If they didn't care about the shows, why would they secure they copyright? We already got a few tracks on the Copyright Collection last year! This is highly encouraging that we could even get another "quiet" release like this in the near future. Obviously, you want the 1965 brick yesterday but I'm sure something is coming in the next 5 years or so. Peace, brother.
     
  19. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    In the next five years or so? I'll believe when I see it, LonesomeDayBlues.

    This 2-CD compilation was a summing up and the big kiss-off. It's wonderful, but
    don't expect any more of it:

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. JoeF.

    JoeF. Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    How can you be so sure? Why can't they have a Volume 2 and beyond?
    I'm not a Dylan expert, but I fully expect that the Copyright Protection material will be further mined for similar types of releases in the future.
     
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  21. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    JoeF, what's needed is a 1965 tour box, not cherry-picked songs in a
    compilation.

    They need to revise and upgrade The 1965 Live Recordings download into
    a CD collection, about 16-18 CDs exactly like The 1966 Live Recordings
    which was 36 CD's.
     
  22. JoeF.

    JoeF. Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    I agree, and given their track record, I'm sure this is a project that will eventually be released. Exactly when, is the question. They have been very responsive to the wants and desires of Dylan's fans, but they do it on their own timetable.
    The last three Bootleg Series were discussed and anticipated on these pages LONG before their official announcement, leading me to believe that if someone in the Dylan camp isn't a member of this forum, a friend of someone in the camp certainly is.....
     
  23. mpayan

    mpayan Forum Resident

    I agree. Bring on the 1965 concerts.
     
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  24. timnor

    timnor Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Just out of interest does anyone know what the big blue box cost in total including all shipping and taxes to Germany ?
     
  25. bluesbro

    bluesbro Forum Hall of Shame

    Location:
    DC
    Its out of print
     

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