Bob Dylan Live 1965 (USA tour)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by BlueJay, Jul 22, 2017.

  1. davmar77

    davmar77 I'd rather be drummin'...

    Location:
    clifton park,ny
    I'm also curious as to the crowd reaction to the butterfield blues band's set. did you happen to catch that?
     
  2. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Richard--W and Percy Song like this.
  3. CCrider92

    CCrider92 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cape Cod, MA
    I did not boo! No one in my whole area booed. I did not hear any boos. I've always believed this whole thing has been blown out of proportion, and that the gripe was the sound quality. I did correspond with the author of the recent book about Dylan's Newport electric set through several emails. His 2 acoustic encores were sterling! MTM and IAONBB. The electric set had MF, ITALTLITATTC (aka Phantom Engineer) LARS, I'd have to see the CD to recall if there were others.
    I can tell you that he was solidly booed in 1964 by most of the side facing stage right. That whole section was mostly NYC - Greenwich Village and the Lower East Side - and they were upset with his being chauffeured around NYC and his trying to get the right fashion look. They felt he was not being true to what he was singing about, that he was a phony. I talked to several of them about this. For some reason our tickets were right in the midst of all the NYC crowd, and our friends on the other wanted to know what the hell had happened over in our area. I've let several Dylan authors know that this is what we saw/heard in 1964.
     
  4. Percy Song

    Percy Song Tom's Tambourine Man

    I'd forgotten that ITALTL was missing from that. Curious omission. That would be why it alone was included on the Live '65 Copyright Collection download given to those who purchased Big Blue. (Also in that set from Newport '65 was the wonderful acoustic Tombstone Blues from the Contemporary Songs Workshop the previous day.)
     
    George P and DeeThomaz like this.
  5. CCrider92

    CCrider92 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cape Cod, MA
    I did not catch that but understand it was very well received. I believe it was written up in the new book about the folk boom in NYC in the '50's -'60's. I also believe it was done on a side stage during the day. The 1965 concert was not held at Freebody Park - it was held in a field where fishermen dried their nets because the park had been closed and the land going to housing or condos.. The field was near the Navy base and MAY have even been in Middletown, Rhode Island and not Newport.
     
    Richard--W likes this.
  6. Percy Song

    Percy Song Tom's Tambourine Man

    :D Thank you! A tribal audience in 1964...

    I enjoyed reading Elijah Wald's book a lot. I was lucky enough to pick up a new but surplus hard cover copy for £1. Absolute bargain.

    I was wondering whether you remembered any of the set list from the later show at Worcester...
     
    Richard--W likes this.
  7. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    My mom was at one of the Newport shows. To my great chagrin, she can't provide any useful details (including just which one). Based on math, I THINK it was '65, but if it was, why can't she tell me more about it? She definitely doesn't seem to think anything usual happened there, but the chronology doesn't really support her attending an earlier show.

    Believe me, I've asked her questions like, hey, "Did he have a band with him?"

    Oh hell, she's my mom. I love her all the same. A good son doesn't pester his mom for the details about something she really doesn't seem to care all that much about, does he?
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
  8. CCrider92

    CCrider92 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cape Cod, MA
    In the acoustic set I recall Baby Blue, Mr T Man, She Belongs, No Limit, Desolation Row; electric was Maggie, Rolling Stone, Thin Man, Ain't Me, Don't Believe You. I've looked many times for the setlist online to no avail.
     
    budwhite, Percy Song and DeeThomaz like this.
  9. NumberEight

    NumberEight Came too late and stayed too long

    Maybe it was Donovan she saw. :)
     
  10. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    You ask her that. Dare ya.
     
    HominyRhodes and NumberEight like this.
  11. Walking Antique

    Walking Antique Forum Resident

    Location:
    usa
    Yes -- the only recordings with all The Hawks:
    Carnegie Hall, New York City; October 1, 1965 (exists, but not circulating)
    Boston; October 29, 1965 (previously ID'd as Chicago) - 50TH ANNIVERSARY COLLECTION: 1965
    Hartford, Connecticut; October 30, 1965 - 50TH ANNIVERSARY COLLECTION: 1965

    (Helm was also recorded at Forest Hills and Hollywood Bowl but without all the rest of The Hawks)
     
    HominyRhodes likes this.
  12. bobcat

    bobcat Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    What is the sound quality like on the Oct 29 and 30 sets?
     
  13. Percy Song

    Percy Song Tom's Tambourine Man



    It's certainly in listenable quality. I'll bet Richard Alderson would have done a better job with the same recording equipment but sometimes you just have to take what you're given and be happy with it.

    As RandPink indicated in his original post(s) from some weeks back on the 1966 Live Recordings thread, this "Visions of Johanna" at the San Francisco Masonic Memorial Temple on 11 December is the earliest known recorded live performance of the song. It is very likely that Bob performed it first at one of the shows at Berkeley the previous week, seeming to indicate as such during his introduction at San Francisco, although it's hard to make out exactly what he is saying. No set lists of the Berkeley shows have emerged so far as I know, so we may never know. He was certainly enthusiastically promoting the newly-minted "Freeze Out" at the KQED-TV Press Conference broadcast prior to the Berkeley shows, having recorded 14 takes of the song with his group (with a lurking Al Kooper possibly adding a little organ on several of the takes) in Studio A on 30 November. Of course, the finally-released version had yet to be recorded, even though several of the New York takes were complete and presentable. Maybe Bob was not entirely happy with the song as it was and wanted to try it out as a solo acoustic number on stage while he re-considered the arrangement for the new album.

    On the San Francisco stage he tunes his guitar (don't ask me what key he's in; in my world keys open doors) and blows a little harp before indicating that this next song is newly recorded, played last week in concert and that it was called "Seems Like A Freeze Out". A couple of other apparently amusing comments follow but these cannot really be determined. He follows these by announcing, deadpan to a laughing audience, the alternative title, "Alcatraz To The 9th Power Revisited", planting a collective thought in the minds of the audience that this might just be a comedy number. There follows some strumming, interrupted by another wave of subdued laughter from the audience - was he doing a couple of his Charlie Chaplin moves here, I wonder? Two minutes has passed and the strumming seems tentative, even as the audience appears to be attentive.

    Finally the song begins. A complete verse on harmonica lasting a minute before the vocal begins. It's difficult to comprehend from this distance that this is a brand new song and, what?, 99.999% of the audience that night will never have heard this song before; a song that these days is so familiar to us all . There is an occasional cough as Bob sings, carefully and with clear intonation, but the overriding impression is that the entire audience is listening intently to the words. There are chuckles in appreciation of the wordplay in:-


    "We can hear the night watchman click his flashlight
    Ask himself if it's him or them that's insane."

    and

    "He's sure got a lotta gall to be so useless and all
    Muttering small talk at the wall while I'm in the hall."


    Full blooded laughter and applause breaks out after


    "But Mona Lisa musta had the highway blues
    You can tell that by the way she smiles.."



    but dies away immediately lest the next line is missed. More chuckles ensue for the primitive wallflower and the jelly-faced women before the place erupts with amusement after


    "Hear the one with the moustache say, "Jeez, I can't find my knees""


    There is a short, blues-tinged harmonica break before the fiddler speaks, and the peddler steps to the road and examines the nightingale's code, and there is a short harmonica flourish as the song ends to rapturous applause which is truncated by the recorder being switched off. We re-join proceedings as Bob is finalising his guitar tuning for Mr. Tambourine Man. Surprise, surprise, we catch him muttering something underneath his breath about the tuning...

    More surprising is that "Alcatraz To The 9th Power Revisited" was not played at San Jose the next evening. The lyrics that are familiar to us now were pretty much fully-formed by 11 December so there wasn't a lot of revision to do on that score. Perhaps he needed to think a bit about altering or removing altogether the harmonica introduction which he might have considered to be laboured. Who knows? I'd say there are better live performances of the song contained in The 1966 Live Recordings box, but this one, so soon after the studio sessions that first produced it, is pretty good, and perhaps made more special by its place in history.

    #
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  14. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    Alderson, thankfully, joined the tour at just the right time, if we have to pick which leg he was jumping onto. Having him go back in time and record Autumn '65 - Winter '66 would add some variety, however.
     
    Percy Song and DeeThomaz like this.
  15. Walking Antique

    Walking Antique Forum Resident

    Location:
    usa
    Bad. They were recorded by audience members on cheap equipment: distant, distorted, hissy. Historically interesting for fanatics, but a real struggle to listen to.
     
    bobcat likes this.
  16. Lars1966

    Lars1966 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    What was that, a good son would pay for hypnosis? I quite agree.
     
  17. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    The circulation of these tapes will certainly prove a test as to whether the Dylan copyright extension sets have actually been thwarting a flood of public domain releases in the EU, since all of San Francisco and the San Jose acoustic set were not "protected" and can theoretically be legally released in the EU.
     
  18. Percy Song

    Percy Song Tom's Tambourine Man

    The specific wording of the initial announcement does appear to indicate that there may be a physical PD release being prepared by somebody. If that does happen, and if it is successful, I wonder if those holding onto the October Carnegie Hall show (and the associated rehearsals) might consider letting it go. My recollection is that the original tapes from that event were part of Albert Grossman's estate and found their way to a collector. According to the mighty Olof, or his sources at least, there was a one-off outing for "Can You Please Crawl Out Your Window" at Carnegie Hall. Given that it was first, and extensively, tried out in the studio in July during the Highway 61 Revisited sessions, and was being considered as the next single after "Positively 4th Street" which was climbing the charts at the time of the show, it seems possible that he might indeed have included it.
     
  19. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    The Ginsberg audience tapes, if released in the EU, could garner some minor attention and sell a few copies. But a Carnegie Hall soundboard tape seems like something that could move some sizable units (as archival recordings go).
     
  20. shadow blaster

    shadow blaster Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scandinavia
    It could be argued that the Ginsberg tapes are already "public", in the sense that anyone can walk into the Stanford Library and request to hear them. Of course, some practical restrictions such as geography remain. It will be interesting to see what "made public" will actually mean in this case. I am not too hopeful for a physical product.....but happy to be proven wrong of course.
    Oh and please release Carnegie Hall Oct 1st.... :).
     
    notesfrom likes this.
  21. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    A quick look through amazon.co.uk reveals plenty of public domain Dylan titles, some featuring tracks from the first album, and many featuring live material from 1961 and 1962. Seems inevitable that the Ginsberg tapes (at least 3 of the 4 sets anyway) will be represented in this fashion, unless the Dylan camp has some legal maneuver up their sleeve (as The Beatles camp pulled to block PD releases).
     
    Percy Song and DeeThomaz like this.
  22. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    It'll be fascinating to see if the misidentification of "Berkeley" all these years (including on the official download) makes any difference. I mean, it SHOULD, but do we expect crusty old judges to discern performance differences between different concerts?
     
    RayS likes this.
  23. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    Just to state the obvious, @RandPink seems to be the first to document the "Berkeley" misindentification as far as I can tell. Heylin wrote about these tapes in his 1965/66 book without recognizing this longtime misunderstanding. I'd love to see him tip his hat to RP sometime.
     
  24. Percy Song

    Percy Song Tom's Tambourine Man

    IIRC, wasn't @RandPink also the first to spot the Cardiff/Newcastle LARS switcheroo in the Live 1966 Recordings box?
     
    Alphatheta likes this.
  25. Percy Song

    Percy Song Tom's Tambourine Man

    To introduce a little more mystery to the "Which one is Berkeley...?" question, I just noticed this at the foot of the relevant page at Searching For A Gem, here:-

    2015 50th Anniversary Collection 1965

    Quote:-

    The Berkeley tape was recorded by Allen Ginsberg. However, Stephan Pickering says:

    "Allen Ginsberg donated almost all of his archive to Stanford University's Special Collections.

    MO 733, Ginsberg Papers Subseries 11.b. Reel-to-reel tapes; 7 in.

    Box 119, Reel 7. "Bob Dylan, San José, CA, Civic Auditorium, 12 December 1965"

    Box 134, Reel 5. "San Francisco, CA, Dylan undated" [AG had identified this tape as Berkeley 4 December 1965 after it was catalogued as 'San Francisco, Dylan undated.']

    Box 120, Reel 1: "[Untitled] 1965 Dec 12"

    I have not had the opportunity to listen to Box 120 Reel 1, and I would like to know who has reidentified these tapes, and on what documentary basis. No doubt, these are the Stanford archived tape reels. This means the Berkeley 4 December 1965 (Box 134 Reel 5) released by Jeff Rosen is actually 11 December 1965 San Francisco. What happened to 4 December 1965 Berkeley? I was there, and saw Reb Allen taping the electric segment, the acoustic 'Freeze Out' premiered that night, but he wasn't able to tape it."

    Unquote


    So, it seems Allen Ginsberg himself suggested that the undated San Francisco tape was Berkeley. The reason we believe that the San Francisco tape is San Francisco is that AG asks Bob where he is playing next during their backstage conversation and the answer is "San Jose", and the tour dates support that assertion.

    It seems clear that the San Jose tape is definitely San Jose. The information contained in the fan interviews AG conducted prior to and after the show confirm that they are outside the Civic Auditorium. Also Bob confirms to AG during their interval conversation here that his next show is at Long Beach which again fits the tour schedule (although for some reason the Long Beach show on 17 December is not included at bobdylan.com.)

    However, it does seem that there is another tape, Box 120, Reel 1: "[Untitled] 1965 Dec 12", that perhaps hasn't been digitised yet, or perhaps is not being offered as a listening experience to visitors to the Library. As Stephan reports that he saw AG taping the electric set at Berkeley (but not the acoustic set at which "Visions of Johanna" was premiered), I think one should assume that this mystery reel is actually the Berkeley electric set.
     

Share This Page