Bob Dylan: Shadow Kingdom - Digital Release June 02, 2023 *

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by BawBag, Jun 16, 2021.

  1. Bobvanbeatles

    Bobvanbeatles Member

    Location:
    New york
    How did you make an audio transfer?
     
  2. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    standalone cd recorder
     
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  3. JudasPriest

    JudasPriest Forum Resident

    A few random thoughts off the top of my head one week on and in particular after being able to properly indulge this yesterday without the pesky distractions of work and real life:

    1. This thing is real and will endure. It will be seen as an important part of the jig saw and proof positive that he was a vital creative source, even this late in the game.

    2. It’s the perfect length to serve the general intent: snappy, economic renditions of largely older material with plenty of lyrical re-writes presented in a a fresh musical framework. The idea of doing so without any drums was a bold one which concerned me but it works.

    3. The 50 minute length is perfect for this format despite its perceived brevity initially disappointing some folks but that was in the context of our misconceived preconception that this was going to be a NET style show filmed and streamed to us. It patently isn’t that and a 90 min/2hr presentation using this kind of visual and musical style may have outworn its welcome. 50 mins keeps things tight and fresh. Oh, and it’s also the perfect length for an official audio release down the line so let’s hope that happens.

    4. The visuals were weird and a bit distracting but again, a lot of that might have been against the backdrop of what we were expecting - even with fore knowledge of the teaser as even it in retrospect underplayed the style of what would follow. My preferred format is audio for absorbing this beautiful work but I also now enjoy dipping into the surreal visual world of the Bon Bon Club from time to time.

    5. The fundamental takeaway here is the voice. His singing is magnificently expressive. When you combine Fall 19, RARW and SK, I don’t think it’s in any way overstating matters to say this represents a mini golden period. In truth, you could go back further in terms of his live shows but as a tight, approx 1.5 year window, this one represents a mightily impressive burst of creativity in itself.

    6. Most Likely and Baby Blue the only ones that fall somewhat flat for me. Never liked the former in any event and this version doesn’t change my mind (notwithstanding that lovely moment where he sings sans any instrumentation) while in the case of BB, he traditionally seems to have struggled with that ever since the dizzy heights of 95. In fairness, The SK incarnation is probably better than a lot of NET versions since then and there are parts of it where he sings well but it’s no more than a coda rather than an epic sign off.

    7. The mixing does vary from track to track and on a couple (Most Likely & To Be Alone With You spring to mind) the vocal is a tad too low. That said, in the main it sounds beautiful with a lovely sense of natural space (rather than injected reverb a la TTL), which I’m guessing is partially as a result of apparently being recorded on a sound stage which presumably by definition was considerably larger and sonically roomier than a conventional recording studio. Overall, I’d prefer if Chris Shaw had handled the recording but the new engineer (of Raising Sand fame) has still delivered quality results in quite a few places with the vocal on the quieter tracks sounding incredibly real. I’m hoping that should there be a full audio and/or visual release for purchase that it will be rendered in higher resolution than Veep could deliver which may also improve matters sonically. In the meantime, BB has worked his magic and offered the definitive audio experience to date.

    8. Masterpiece is an inspired opener and might be my favourite version of this ever. That’s despite stiff competition from Fall 19 and of course, the RTR era.

    9. The H61R material is gorgeously rendered. Tombstone Blues is of course the most radical but Queen Jane and Tom Thumb’s Blues are beautiful. I at first somewhat under appreciated the latter as it is on the surface a fairly conventional arrangement with no lyrical tinkering but it’s got its hooks right into me by now.

    10. The 3 song run of WWIYW, FY and PMT represents the high point of the album (I think of it as such) for me with WWIYW leaving me salivating at what a future project of later period songs in this parallel universe style could achieve. Echoes of Forgetful Heart and Scarlet Town at their The Set period zenith. FY hasn’t moved me this way in decades. Beautiful arrangement and a vocal to die for - more fragility than usual for this set, achingly close to collapse but in the most emotionally of satisfying ways. And then as if to show us the other side, he pulls out Pledging and effortlessly shows us he can still give us the smoky blues and x delivery of BoB if he wants, even at 80. Those 3 songs encapsulate everything that is good about this new work.

    11. An honourable mention for Wicked Messenger. An ear worm if ever their was one and in spirit is this the most faithful cover of the album version he’s ever done? Sure feels like it.

    12. Still don’t know where exactly to rank it in terms of Mod Bob releases. Appreciate the argument that because he’s covering his own work it’s unique and therefore not appropriate to compare but that saiid, there’s so much creatively new and fresh here that it feels like an entirely new work to my ears and therefore worthy of analysis in that context. RARW is the top of the 21st century tree to me with an immersive richness, depth and texture that is a triumph. L&T probably edges it too in my mind (so far). Hmmm….. come to think of it, there are some similarities with that album - a certain vivacity and vibrancy; a fearlessness to go in multiple directions, a sense of musical joy and liberation that’s visceral in nature…. Perhaps this, more than any other releases since is a natural successor 20 years later?? Gonna have to think about this some more.

    13. As ever, there is the prospect of this being the last recorded output he delivers in his lifetime. If so, it would be a fitting end, serving at once as a vital recasting of earlier work presented in an artistically satisfying and typically Dylan way - it startles and confounds as we grapple and struggle to process it initially but soon unravels itself as yet another important chapter in the box of never ending delights that has been his career to date. We’ll never see his like again
     
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  4. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    Great comments, and of course the key item. Dylan's expressive use of voice.

    That magnificently expressive voice has always been there, all through the "NET" years.

    Unfortunately, it was rarely "taken down" in recordings.

    Not only the boomy, echo-laden large arenas or outdoor events, but the heavily amplified sound systems that emphasized bass and percussion, the poor position of recorders, and use of microphones hidden from sight. Then all the transfers etc.

    In such settings, Bob had to push harder and sing louder, just as you and I speak much louder in a restaurant or large group of people.

    This of course changed his vocal phrasing for many performances. It is harder to do very gentle bending of notes while pushing your voice in a huge arena, as many mic-soundboards cannot make it be heard in a noisy and boomy venue.

    I think that one of the reasons Dylan is so well know for maintaining some personal silence (not speaking) in most of his shows, and a reason that Dylan often has a Persian carpet on stage and burns incense while performing in arenas is to help him achieve a feeling of isolation and separateness in order to sing expressively, especially in his slower songs.

    He doesn't come out shouting, "How are you all doing Atlanta!" "Let me hear you!" and on and on. He needs his space in order to sing.

    But, as virtually every formal recording shows, the "magnificently expressive" singing has always been there. Some better concert audience tapes show it just as well.

    Listen to "Girl From The North Country" from the Fall 2019 tour.
     
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  5. Tom Schreck

    Tom Schreck Forum Resident

    I too have performed an audio transfer for my own use. I took a stereo line-out from my laptop and recorded it to a digital two-track Zoom recorder. Then I took the WAV track and imported it back onto my computer, amplified it in Audacity and chopped it up into individual tracks.

    My concerns: I auto-amplified it up to "zero" (no extra compression involved), but it might sound just a little too loud now overall. Also, it's not always clear where to split the tracks during the segues between songs. Obviously I can re-do these steps if I'd like.

    If anyone wants to trade notes on their own audio transfers, feel free to reach out.
     
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  6. steviej

    steviej Forum Resident

    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    I watched this a few days ago and I found the miming really distracting. As a musician myself, it was hard not to keep thinking "well, that doesn't match with the sound at all" when looking at what the musicians on the screen were doing.

    As an audio-only release, this would be top-notch.
     
    philly67 likes this.
  7. JudasPriest

    JudasPriest Forum Resident

    The Bennyboy remaster posted over at Exp Rain is delicious.
     
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  8. Tom Schreck

    Tom Schreck Forum Resident

    I just compared it to my flat transfer, and it looks pretty close. Looks like he used some compression and EQ, and I'm looking forward to listening. Thank you for sharing this here.
     
  9. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    Is there no way to save Shadow Kingdom to my desktop?

    PM me.
     
  10. Dee Zee

    Dee Zee Once Upon a Dream

    We enjoyed this presentation completely. Worth it.
     
  11. the real pope ondine

    the real pope ondine Forum Resident

    Location:
    usa
    wow.....Queen Jane :love::love::love: amazing
     
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  12. Dayfold

    Dayfold Forum Resident

    Is it just me or is the audio all in mono?
     
  13. Dayfold

    Dayfold Forum Resident

    I think To Be Alone With You is my favourite of the bunch. The audaciousness of lyric rewrite amazes me. I can't think of any other artist who reworks their songs to that extent and not only gets away with it but arguably improves something already great too. Just brilliant.
     
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  14. Dee Zee

    Dee Zee Once Upon a Dream

    The direct audio through my amp had very little low end in my 5,1 system. I switched through all my audio processing options and settled on All channel stereo and then I could really hear that bass through my sub woofer. YMMV.
     
    Dayfold likes this.
  15. Tom Schreck

    Tom Schreck Forum Resident

    The audio is definitely not in mono. A very nice stereo image, in fact.
     
  16. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    My objection is not that it doesn’t sound exactly like the first record. I’d rather it sounded at least a little different in some way.

    What I don’t like is when it sounds nothing at all like the record, to the point it’s not even the same song in any musical sense, and the result is not as good as the record.
     
  17. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Changing or discarding melody is not vocal phrasing.
     
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  18. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    I would guess you don't like jazz at all or the singing of Louis Armstrong and all of the vocalists inspired by him (pretty much the history of popular singing after 1930, all over the world).
     
  19. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    You guess wrong. It seems you are trying to generalize things people may like or dislike, for some reason. Some of Dylan’s transformations of songs are not just improvisation — they are completely different songs. Sometimes, they are good, maybe even more interesting than the recorded version, but sometimes they are not. Either way, they can be unrecognizable.

    Jazz generally follows the same changes for a song when the players are improvising, and very often includes the established, recognizable melody played at least once. They don’t just make up a completely new song but then put an old title on it and sing the same words from one line of the song but with a different melody.
     
  20. babyblue

    babyblue Patches Pal!

    Location:
    Pacific NW
    But how much change is "too much?" I can think of two examples off the top of my head of radically different versions that are sublime. The unreleased Unplugged version of "I Want You" is nothing like the album version, yet it's beautiful. The Shadow Kingdom "Forever Young" is almost a classical baroque piece.
     
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  21. onlyconnect

    onlyconnect The prose and the passion

    Location:
    Winchester, UK
    This is uncommon IME. Do you have an example? If you take All along the Watchtower as one, there is a quiet version and a Hendrix-style version but they are recognizably the same song. Lay Lady Lay on Hard Rain is pretty different from that on Nashville Skyline, has different words, but it is recognizably the same song.

    Tim
     
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  22. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    It is curious to me that the principal elements of his greatness - his unpredictability, his ability to spontaneously create, his ability to change - can become the very basis of people's complaints and gripes about him.
     
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  23. babyblue

    babyblue Patches Pal!

    Location:
    Pacific NW
    I always find actors miming playing instruments on movies and TV shows distracting. You can usually tell they're not playing. Some of the musicians on Shadow Kingdom take this to almost absurd levels with exaggerated movements, which is strange. You would think musicians would try to be a little more subtle about it. Maybe Dylan wanted it this way?
     
  24. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    My examples have been in person, not recorded, as far as I know. I’d buy that it’s uncommon, and I will say no live record versions I have heard have run afoul, to me.

    At this point, I’m just objecting to the generalization that people who don’t like something “don’t understand” or must also not like a bunch of other things that aren’t even similar. It’s possible to understand vocal phrasing and rearranging songs without always enjoying the way Bob Dylan does it, while also being a fan of Bob Dylan’s body of work.
     
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  25. the real pope ondine

    the real pope ondine Forum Resident

    Location:
    usa


    i remember hearing someone post an early live cut, i think he dedicated it to soomeone, maybe the first time he did it? and thought it was really nice
     

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