Bob Dylan: "Trouble No More 1979 - 1981" - The Bootleg Series Vol. 13

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by DeeThomaz, Sep 24, 2015.

  1. SPARTACUS

    SPARTACUS Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sheffield
    But 20% too slow? A 5-year-old would be able to hear that from down the block, and say "Mommy that man sounds funny". :)[/QUOTE]
    Most five year olds would probably say that even at normal speed...
     
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  2. jpmosu

    jpmosu a.k.a. Mr. Jones

    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio, USA
    I've made my way through Discs 1-4, and I have a single complaint so far:

    "You Changed My Life" was, for me, one of the weak links of the original Bootleg Series 1-3. That one shoulda stayed on the shelf.

    However, now I know the compilers of 1-3 made the right choice (if the song *had*to be included).

    The alternate on Trouble No More is something that should be buried in a deep hole.
     
  3. Mark87

    Mark87 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, England
    Thanks for the info! I also see he has loads of '78 concerts which is wonderful. Still trying to find someplace where I can download them..:confused:
     
  4. Tom Daniels

    Tom Daniels Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona
    The spirit of '66 is all over these shows, and it is hard to believe Bob didn't create this tension somewhat intentionally. From the '74 comeback tour on, he was a beloved legend. People went to see Bob to see Bob. But that energy of fresh creation, of rebellion, that was there in the early folkie years, and was there when he went electric in '66, that energy and challenge was gone, and Bob was in danger of becoming a nostalgia act, a reassuring memory of canonized '60s rebellion.

    Bob went against most of his fans, the rock fans, by going Christian. They were just as offended by "their Bobby" changing lanes as the folkies were in '66. They thought they owned Bob, that he was their guy, and he went in a direction that was unimaginable to a lot of them, comfortable in their post-60s liberal, secular world. They couldn't buy into this "new Dylan." They may have thought they were hip because the "new Dylan" that played rock and roll was their Dylan, they weren't like those simpering folkies who couldn't keep up with Bob. Until they were.

    For Bob he once again had a new direction, a new style, a new message, and he was again challenging his audience, pretty much directly going at them and, instead of giving him what they wanted, he gave them what he wanted. 100%. No oldies. Nothing recognizable. The result was, like '66, Bob and the band on an island, and the passion and commitment it brings out in Bob is incredible. The music is actually better. '66 was almost a perversely unsubtle wall of sound. He we get layers and power and passion and more complexity. It is incredible.

    It was more radical than '66, if less celebrated, since it doesn't fit with the rock critics/mass culture attitude towards rock music. It took longer to be re-evaluated and appreciated. Reviewers and commenters still lead with disclaimers about their belief (or lack thereof). Like it matters. This is about Bob's belief and Bob's passion. Nobody ever said if they agreed or disagreed with Tell Me Momma or Ballad of a Thin Man. What matters isn't if you or I agree with Bob's version of Christianity. The Sistine Chapel is great timeless art. These were incredible, no-holds-barred concerts, often played to hostile audiences. He was more Judas on display here, to his rock fans, than he was to the folkie fans in '66, who actually got to see and hear amazing acoustic sets. This was the real deal, passion on stage every night. And only now are those outside a small coterie of Bob fans who always saw what these shows were, only now are these shows being recognized for what they were.
     
  5. RayS

    RayS Paying attention like a rattlesnake does

    Ya got me. Pretty much all of my '78 concerts came on cassette via my friendly postman, who I assume is retired and down in Florida getting himself some sun. :)
     
  6. RayS

    RayS Paying attention like a rattlesnake does

    I'd wager I've been through the whole box (including San Diego) about 5 times now. It seems public opinion is firmly in the corner of Toronto, but in my humble opinion, I suspect that folks are being seduced by sound quality. Toronto is generally quite good, particularly the songs from the second half of the concerts. I have a hard time getting by the big gaffe in "Covenant Woman" (it takes 30 seconds for me to get back into the song, every time), "Gotta Serve Somebody" sounds like he's already starting to grow bored with it. "When He Returns" is great (when isn't it?) but the San Diego version (and any number of the Fall '79 versions) has it beat, IMO.

    So, for me, San Diego > Toronto, and it's not all that close.

    I loved the 4-20 "Ain't Gonna Go To Hell", which was the first performance of the "good" lyrics that we got from a soundboard source. I prefer it to 4-18, which is on the box.

    On the whole, I prefer the Fall 1980 tour to its 1981 counterpart. But '81 does have the "Shot of Love" songs to bolster it. So I can understand the inclusion of Earl's Court over, say, Portland '80. I prefer Avignon to any of the London shows (at least in my memory), but I really won't bicker with what we were given - it's a solid performance with some great moments and it sounds terrific.
     
  7. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I was thinking many of things that you have stated. BUT I couldn't have formulated them into such an insightful and well-written post. :thumbsup:
     
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  8. majorlance

    majorlance Open-minded skeptic

    Location:
    Collingswood, NJ
    You mean like this "bonus" disc? Has anybody played this more than once?

     
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  9. RayS

    RayS Paying attention like a rattlesnake does

    I wouldn't consider that an accurate analogy. I HAVE played the "sermons" many times over (to the point where I think I know some of the 11-16-79 and 11-26-79 ones nearly by heart, those being the two shows I've heard the most).

    I do own "Arc" and I've played it, but, IMO, it adds very little to what the tour was all about ("Weld", on the other hand, does that pretty well). The "sermons" are at the heart of what this tour was "about". I understand the reasoning behind leaving them off, but I'll continue to disagree with it. San Diego, in particular, should have been presented "as is". The little bit of "sermon" that is allowed to slip on to the Toronto discs (before "Solid Rock") makes me want MORE, not less. In my opinion and all that, of course.
     
  10. Percy Song

    Percy Song Tom's Tambourine Man

    Agreed. The San Diego set would have been the ideal vehicle for including an official audio record of Bob's raps/sermonising. People who ordered the set with the exclusive bonus are almost certainly hardcore fans (for want of a better phrase) and would have known what they would be getting.

    The Amanda Petrusich essay in the Deluxe Edition quotes an extract of Bob's sermonising in 1979 (Tempe, I think); somehow it seems silly to be able to read the text of the sermon(s) in the liner notes of a product but not be able to hear at least some of it in the audio of the same product. There's room on the discs.

    (I'd also like to have had the full San Diego show on those bonus discs, complete with the opening gospel numbers, but perhaps this section was not recorded on the soundboard, or there are copyright issues or some such.)
     
  11. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    So, @Percy Song @RayS how comprehensive do you find the new Heylin book in regards to the extant "raps" (if you consider both the main text and the apprentice)? Should I still seek out an affordable copy of "Saved" (or perhaps better, the original shows) or is it a reasonably comprehensive resource for that?
     
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  12. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Well said.
     
  13. Percy Song

    Percy Song Tom's Tambourine Man

    Well, @DeeThomaz , despite having Clinton's book for well over a month now, I'm currently only on Page 60. I needed to finish off a novel I was reading first which, curiously, featured Curacao as one of the locations. Despite being reasonably well-travelled, I'd never heard of Curacao until a few weeks ago and now it seems to be everywhere at once.

    So the simple answer is, I don't know - although @RayS will undoubtedly give you a much more useful answer than that - but I'd definitely go for the original shows...
     
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  14. RayS

    RayS Paying attention like a rattlesnake does

    I haven't gotten far enough to say. I am about 10% of the way through the book, as it's a very busy time of the semester, and I'm reading another book concurrently (about Adolf Eichmann, the quote in my signature derives from it). I should be able to let you know by the end of next week, since there's a little break on the horizon.
     
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  15. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    Thanks. But when you do, please consult the "appendix" and not the "apprentice" as I misspelled it (though perhaps the "tyke" comes back into the story here).
     
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  16. RayS

    RayS Paying attention like a rattlesnake does

    My guess would be that the "warm-up" portions were also recorded, but they weren't included because they are, after all, NOT Bob Dylan. I enjoy listening to them on the audience tapes (the ones that preserve them anyway) for context. And THIS song always stick in my head after I hear it:

     
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  17. RayS

    RayS Paying attention like a rattlesnake does

    I need an apprentice to dig through Dylan tapes for me. :)

    Talk about a dream apprenticeship, though, huh?
     
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  18. They should send a download link to all of the buyers who bought from Dylan.com. Especially to appease those who had shipping delays. However not sure if the sermons would be a reward or a punishment :tiphat:
     
  19. mikeja75

    mikeja75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    I have expanded my list of officially released items from the Gospel period that are not included on the box (see below). If anyone has any corrections or additions please post them.

    Trouble In Mind (Pure Dylan: An Intimate Look At Bob Dylan, 2011 - differs from version on box set)
    Gotta Serve Somebody (October 20, 1979; Saturday Night Live Season 5 DVD Rip)
    I Believe In You (October 20, 1979; Saturday Night Live Season 5 DVD Rip)
    When You Gonna Wake Up (October 20, 1979; Saturday Night Live Season 5 DVD Rip)
    The Groom's Still Waiting At the Alter (Live Nov 15, 1980 w/ intro; From His Head To His Heart To His Hands box set)
    Every Grain of Sand (Demo; Bootleg Series Vols. 1-3)
    Caribbean Wind (Biograph / Sidetracks)
    Heart of Mine (Biograph / Sidetracks)
    Let It Be Me (Non US B-side of Heart Of Mine single, July 1981. Shot Of Love outtake recorded May 1981)
    Don't Ever Take Yourself Away (Outtake from Shot of Love, Released on “Hawaii Five-O: Original Songs From The Television Series”, 2011)
    You Changed My Life (Shot of Love Outtake; Bootleg Series Vols. 1-3)
    Need A Woman (Shot of Love Outtake; Bootleg Series Vols. 1-3)
    Angelina (Shot of Love Outtake; Bootleg Series Vols. 1-3)
    Dead Man, Dead Man (Bob Dylan Live 1961-2000: Thirty Nine Years Of Great Concert Performances; Nov 10, 1981 live in New Orleans)

    The following promo LP was released in 1981 that includes no unreleased music, but has Bob playing guitar in the background throughout the interview. A nice intervew -- it's always good to hear Bob take the questions seriously and make an attempt to answer everything as best as he can:

    Bob Dylan ‎– London Interview July 1981
    Label: Columbia ‎– AS 1259
    Format: Vinyl, LP, Promo
    Released: Sep 1981

    ...and I would also recommend the following release -- although it's not truly an 'official' release, but still essential (in my opinion) as a companion to the Trouble No More box set:

    Bob Dylan - Classic Interviews Vol. 3 (1979-1981)

    https://www.amazon.com/Vol-3-Classic-Interviews-Bob-Dylan/dp/B000ET5YJ4

    I removed "Ye Shall Be Changed (Slow Train Outtake; Bootleg Series Vols. 1-3)" since the recording matches the new box set. The mastering differs between the two releases.

    >>>

    The Trouble No More DVD adds yet more options, from an audio perspective, to the mix.

    The DVD has the movie proper along with a bonus section in which the user can just play the concert footage, watch the sermons, or play the six bonus clips. If you compare the audio between the movie and the material in the bonus section, you'll soon realize that most of the sermons and the live clips in the movie are edited. The audio from the DVD breaks down as follows and I have tried to highlight the specifics from each section:

    Title 1 (The Documentary)

    Most, if not all, of the sermons and the live audio are edited. It's best to grab these from the bonus sections for a more complete listening experience.

    The one track that you do want to rip from the documentary is:

    Chapter 21 - Abraham, Martin, and John (Rehearsal) (2:56)

    Title 2 (The Concert)

    This is from the bonus section and is kind of a mini live album since they've mastered the tracks to all crossfade together (to varying results). Even though some of the tracks are in the box, and sound better on CD to my ears, it's best to keep these ten tracks as one 'album'. They flow together from track-to-track and a number of the live recordings are exclusive to the DVD (see my notes below). It would appear that a number of these stem from the Toronto shows in 1980, but no specifics are noted in the credits of the DVD.

    01 Are You Ready? (Differs from the versions in the box)
    02 Solid Rock (Differs from the versions in the box)
    03 Slow Train (Differs from the versions in the box)
    04 When He Returns (Matches Version on D5T5)
    05 Precious Angel (Matches Version on D5T9)
    06 Saved (Differs from the versions in the box)
    07 Do Right To Me Baby (Edited? Differs from the versions in the box)
    08 Ain't Gonna Go to Hell For Anybody (Differs from the versions in the box)
    09 What Can I Do For You (Differs from the versions in the box)
    10 Pressing On (Edited? Differs from the versions in the box)

    Title 3 (The Sermons)

    Taken again from the bonus section of the DVD. These are the same sermons from the documentary, but unedited. Dylan is not featured in these audio files.

    01 Michael Shannon - Hypocrisy (2:37)
    02 Michael Shannon - Virtue (3:27)
    03 Michael Shannon - Temperance (2:01)
    04 Michael Shannon - Gluttony (2:05)
    05 Michael Shannon - Justice (3:11)
    06 Michael Shannon - Prudence (2:57)

    Title 4 (The Bonus Tracks)

    This section, also from the bonus features, are the extra tracks. The last three tracks, to my ears, are all found in Title 2 (The Concert), but here they are unbanded (i.e. there's no crossfade with other tracks). Tracks 2 and 3 are the only two that are unique within the Trouble No More universe with "Jesus Met the Woman at the Wall" being an exclusive track to the DVD.

    01 Shot of Love (Matches Version on D2T10)
    02 Cover Down, Pray Though (Differs from the versions in the box)
    03 Jesus Met the Woman at the Wall (Only Found on DVD)
    04 Ain't Gonna Go To Hell For Anybody (Unbanded - Same as found on DVD Title 2 "In Concert")
    05 Precious Angel (Unbanded - Same as found on DVD Title 2 "In Concert")
    06 Slow Train (Unbanded - Same as found on DVD Title 2 "In Concert")
     
  20. brianvargo

    brianvargo Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Funny how our tastes match on the Bootleg Series 1-3 take but vary on the Trouble No More take. To my ears, the former is rushed and dull; musically, it's a pale outline for the glorious song that will eventually become "Series of Dreams." On the other hand, the Trouble No More take benefits from the slowed-down arrangement and less histrionic vocal, putting emphasis on what turns out to be a pretty strong set of lyrics. For me, it works quite well and redeems the song.
     
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  21. Craig's Story

    Craig's Story Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Thanks , well said and of course it is still about the music
     
  22. soundQman

    soundQman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arlington, VA, USA
    When did you purchase the download? (date)
     
  23. soundQman

    soundQman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arlington, VA, USA
    Unfortunately I remember the old ways and stubbornly stick to them.
     
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  24. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Apple Consigliere In Waiting

    Location:
    Bergenfield, NJ
    I think you're both nuts! :winkgrin: For 26 years now, "You Changed My Life" has been one of the highlights of BS1-3 for me -- indeed, one of my favorites of the entire Christian era! The BS13 version is intriguing, but fatally flawed by one too many repetitions of the title phrase in the chorus. (I think we all know which one...) I love the fire and gusto of the original, but the slower tenp of this new one does allow you to focus on the lyrics more. I think with a bit of editing (to remove that penultimate line of each chorus) it will be a very nice alternate.

    In related news, after listening to the new "rehearsal" version of "Caribbean Wind" for two weeks, I popped iver to the Biograph version yesterday, and for the first time in 32 years, found it somewhat lacking. I really hate it when a new version of a song reveals flaws in an old favorite that I'd been blissfully unaware of. Damn you, great new version of "Caribbean Wind"! :realmad:

    In an ongoing quibble carried over from BS12, I think Mr. Rosen et al. are leaning too far in the "under-produced" direction with these last two releases. Where previous BS sets have been mixed and mastered to match the eras and albums they derive from, BS 12 and 13 are a little quieter, a little "duller" than their canon counterparts. Now, I know that I'm saying this in a forum where "quieter" and "less bright" are usually high praise -- but hear me out. I wanted to test my suspicion that the new outtake of "The Groom's Still Waiting At The Altar" was my new favorite, so I A-B'd it with the standard version. While I appreciate the less bombastic "80s" production on the BS13 take, when you play the two back-to-back the outtake is considerably quieter, with the guitars buried and an overall "flatter" sound.

    This was something I'd noticed on BS12 -- with some tracks more than others. They said up front that they were going for a more raw sound, and when you line up the "master" takes on BS12 with their official album counterparts, you know they weren't kidding. Most tracks are a little quieter and a litte more muffled, losing some crispness and some punch. Listen to both versions of the "canon" take of "Visions Of Johanna" and see what you think.

    Again, if dynamic range is your alpha and onega, maybe you think that these last two Bootleg sets are the best sounding ones yet. But it's not just the volume, it's the mixing -- there's a clarity missing in some of these tracks, almost as if they want to prevent outtakes from being favored over their official cousins. Not really a big deal in the context of their home sets -- where they sound great -- but if you like to mix 'em up in playlists like I do, it's a bit of a pain in the neck. I feel like I need to "remaster" my favorite BS12 and 13 tracks so that they match their parent albums and previous BS sets -- a task so time-consuming that I haven't yet attempted it.
     
  25. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    I did an FM Broadcast of the San Diego show with no interruption tonight. Certainly the only time on the radio like that
     

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