Bob Dylan's Basement Tapes - where we're at currently...

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by GetRhythm, Apr 11, 2014.

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  1. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Although I think Dylan got his version of Johnny Todd from the Clancy Brothers, here is another take, by one of the serious "folksingers" of the '60s (Mr. MacColl didn't like "folk rock" or electric guitars):
     
  2. GetRhythm

    GetRhythm Senior Member Thread Starter

    Okay - time to wrap things up here. First of all, I want to thank everyone who's followed along through this whole journey, and especially those who've contributed their own comments, observations and evaluations along the way. I also want to expressly thank the forum mods for granting me the leeway to discuss "grey market" releases in this much detail - something not normally welcomed here.

    Like probably the majority of rock music fans out there, for a long period I myself had little awareness of the Basement Tapes as being anything much beyond the material that originally appeared on the 1975 LP. But around 2001-2002, I have a distinct memory of going up to visit a girlfriend who lived in Berkeley and stopping into one of the small local CD shops specializing in bootleg releases that were springing up all over the place then. Among all sorts of little treasures in the bins was one of the expanded Basement releases - could have been Tree With Roots or even more likely the Basement Reels, since I seem to remember the Band/Tiny Tim tracks being included on there.

    At any rate, though I was somewhat aware of the additional basement material out there by then (I might have already picked up Clinton Heylin's Recording Sessions book at the time), my initial reaction was something along the lines of "what the hell is all this stuff?" My tastes being somewhat narrower at the time, I had little familiarity with the grand palette of musical reference points that Dylan and the Hawks explored during these sessions. I remember taking a quick listen on headphones to a few tracks I was already somewhat familiar with, but largely unimpressed, leaving the store empty handed.

    Well, fast forward 12 years later, and I it would be hard to overstate how much my life feels enriched through exposure to the complete Basement Tapes. Even thinking about their creation is intoxicating - imagine an existence where you're living out in this idyllic country setting with your very talented musical friends there at your beck and call, having few obligations or commitments other than to your young growing family, and with little else to do except convene on fairly regular occasions to make music in a laid-back, relaxed setting (dog sleeping in the corner of course) for the sheer joy of it. It certainly proved a tonic for Dylan after the amphetamine-fueled craziness of his '66 world tour and the shock of his subsequent motorcycle crash, spurring a period of intense creativity that has few parallels in a career packed with them.

    And what do we have to thank for making this material available to us? That very same "grey market" so villified by many around here. Well, okay - if you want to take the high moral ground on this, fine. Personally, I'll take "Sign On the Cross", "Banks Of the Royal Canal", "Rock, Salt and Nails", "See That My Grave Is Kept Clean", "I'm Your Teenage Prayer", "Song For Canada", "Still In Town", "Spanish Is the Loving Tongue", "Young But Daily Growing", "Four Strong Winds", "I'm a Fool For You" - or any number of others I could name. Not to mention, the many "official" tracks that sound better in their cleaner-sourced "booted" versions.

    Which makes a nice segue into the final tallying of the "best versions" competition. According to my count, here's how it all panned out:

    Genuine Basement Tapes: 50
    Tree With Roots: 37
    Official versions (including 1975 LP, I'm Not There Soundtrack, and A Musical History Band archival release): 9
    Genuine Bootleg Series: 8
    Basement Reels: 2
    Mixing Up the Medicine: 1

    So there you have it. And guess what - Genuine Basement Tapes handily wins over it's supposed upgraded Tree With Roots remaster. Each of these tended to be stronger in different sections, but the Tree With Roots effort for various reasons largely failed in being the wholly successful overhaul that was intended.

    In terms of consistently high quality, the Genuine Bootleg Series basement tracks actually fare the best, but these form only a small limited portion of the total tracks included on that release. And the official LP was not by any means a total washout - faring particularly well with tracks sourced from the original reels which were left largely unfutzed with. Finally, "I'm Not There" from the movie soundtrack and the remaster of "Odds and Ends" on Musical History provide a glimpse of what might be achieved respectively when the very best available sources are utilized or through a particularly sympathetic remaster.

    And so what then are the prospects for an upgraded, more complete version of the Basement Tapes? We're all clamoring for it, why can't Sony/Columbia get off their duffs and make it happen already?

    Well, in this particular case, it's not as easy as it looks. First off, remember that these sessions originally had nothing to do with Columbia Records. They weren't recorded under the label's auspices, in Columbia facilities, with Columbia equipment, or by Columbia-contracted personnel. In fact, a large portion of the tracks were recorded while Dylan wasn't even contracted to Columbia - his original recording contract having expired the previous year before finally being renewed in late August of '67.

    The outgrowth of this is that unlike most previous Dylan outtake projects, there very likely aren't a set of nice pristine "basement tapes" sitting at the ready in Columbia's vaults. In fact, it's unclear at this point in time just who has all the original reels or even in what condition they might be in. Remember what the actual "basement tapes" consist of - various off-brands of 1/4" tape (probably used in many cases), some of which were already noted in the early '70s as having the oxide falling off. Maybe Garth still has some of them, maybe some have fallen into the hands of various private collectors, maybe "Dylan's people" (as mentioned by an earlier poster) have them, maybe even some are missing. At any rate, locating all of them - and perhaps paying off some of those currently in posession of them - could be a huge and costly undertaking. And who knows even then what their level of usability will be?

    What then are the other options? Well, as already noted, Neil Young is in posession of a nice clean 2nd generation straight transfer of most of the important Dylan-composed basement tracks. Would Mr. Young be willing to make his "Basement Safety" available for such a project as he did for the I'm Not There soundtrack? At a price I suppose - but even then, this doesn't get you very far in any effort towards a "complete basement" release.

    I would imagine Sony/Columbia might still have the 2nd generation "Fraboni Reels" that were compiled in preparation for the original LP lying around somewhere. This is a more extensive collection, but still only gets you less than halfway there (and not all of it was sourced from original basement reels either). Moreover, as we've come to find via the boots likely sourced from them, it appears that the versions on these tapes were collapsed to mono or narrow stereo at the time they were transferred over. This might have been fine for the original LP, but now the cat is out of the bag as far as fans' expectations for a wider stereo spread. So consequently, these reels probably won't cut it.

    Beyond that, you really only have the same material that's largely been used to produce the currently circulating bootleg releases. So given all of the above, might Sony/Columbia actually be forced to take the 'path of least resistance' and simply remaster the boots? The mind boggles...

    Whatever sources are finally used, there's a far greater effort than normally required here in terms of the actual remastering as well. Problems abound - dropouts, sections of over-saturation and distortion, high hiss levels, inconsistency in panning of sources between tracks - you name it. That's not to discount Garth Hudson's achievement in creating these very rich recordings under something quite a bit less than professional studio conditions. But to put them forward in their best light, it's not going to be a matter of simply matching levels with a few EQ tweaks here and there. There's some serious, painstaking work involved.

    So as far as any official complete basement release goes, I'm not holding my breath. But until such an eventuality occurs, maybe we should all just sit back and - as the song says - "just be thankful, for what you've got..."
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
  3. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Nailed it -- thank you.
     
  4. GetRhythm

    GetRhythm Senior Member Thread Starter

    Thank you - appreciate it.

    One more thing regarding my somewhat pessimistic view of the prospects for an upgraded expanded release - I'd sure like to be proven wrong in my assumptions by someone with inside knowledge of the issues involved, should anyone like that care to weigh in on the matter....
     
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  5. The Reasoner

    The Reasoner Forum Resident

    Location:
    Connecticut, USA
    Thank you, GetRhythm, for this exellent analysis. This thread really would make great little guide to the basement tapes, especially if someone were to edit it together into a single document.

    What are everyone's thoughts on an official release? When it happens (someday), how likely would it be that they would release a box set with every scrap of basement material?

    Assuming they only do a 2-CD set, which songs/takes should be included? What about the order of the tracks? Put them in chronological order, as best as possible? Personally, I'd be fine with mixing them up to give the album a nice "flow".

    I'd especially prefer that the covers from early in the sessions are interspersed with the Dylan originals from later on. And the lighthearted, "fun" tracks layered with the more serious, somber ballads.

    I plan on putting together my own basement tapes playlist with about 2 CD's worth of material. (I like the title "Buncha Basement Noise")

    I'd include just 1 take of each song, except in cases where 2 takes are vastly different from each other. You Ain't Going Nowhere is a good example of this. (Take 1, with all its nonsense lyrics, is of my favorite tracks here, and the source of my playlist title.)

    Again, thanks to GetRhythm and everyone else here. Great thread.
     
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  6. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    In a perfect world, all of the surviving original Basement Tapes would have been copied and digitally remastered in recent years, with "safety" analog tape copies made, and stored in some central location. I believe Dylan owns all of his other master tapes, as a consequence of his various contract negotiations over the years, and he must own the Basements, too.

    One possible stumbling block to a release of the complete sessions might be The Band's legal interest in the material. The estates of the late Richard Manuel, Rick Danko and Levon Helm would probably have to be involved, as well as Robbie Robertson and Garth Hudson, who are still alive and well. (Hopefully, the estate of Tiny Tim wouldn't be involved.)
     
  7. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Welcome to the forums: Hands down, this thread has the most detailed information, explained in an eminently readable format -- GetRhythm is one of best writers around this joint. There are several older threads with various opinions on what form a box set should take if, and when, it's released; do a thread search if you're interested.
     
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  8. cc--

    cc-- Forum Resident

    Location:
    brooklyn
    this kind of completeness seems to never happen, even with material less chaotic than the Basement Tapes. So I'm sure an official release would leave many of us unsatisfied in that sense.

    but for the opportunity to better the SQ and lose the '75 overdubs, it would surely be worth that tradeoff.
     
  9. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Yes, it's been said before, but the Basement Tapes are similar to the Beatles' Let It Be/Get Back sessions, with complete/incomplete takes, fragments, covers. etc. A "definitive" box set would be very difficult to assemble, but most people would still love to hear every bit of it, in decent quality.
     
  10. GetRhythm

    GetRhythm Senior Member Thread Starter

    The crucial difference between these two sets of recordings being of course that nearly everything the Beatles played during those 20 days of sessions in January 1969 was recorded by some methodology (mostly necessitated by the requirements for concurrently filming a documentary), whereas over the 8-9 months of basement sessions, Dylan and the Hawks were much more discerning in what was actually preserved on tape. So there's a lot less chaff among the basements - in fact, there's very little if anything that I would want to see cut from any upgraded archival release. And if we're talking physical media, it is possible to fit the whole set of Dylan basement recordings on four CDs - albeit a bit tightly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
  11. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Four CDs, unless the rumored additional "nine reels" contain more treasures. As you said before, if some "insider" (hint-hint) would care to enlighten us about these...
     
  12. ronbow

    ronbow Senior Member

    Location:
    St. Louis MO
    My 2 cents?

    I do think it unrealistic and quite an over-reach to expect a comprehensive release. (Even in the highly unlikely event they would attempt this, what is the likelyhood they would actually improve on what has already been released on the grey market?)

    What I would like to see, however - and I think this would be manageable - is to have disc one replicate one of the contemporary compilations - either the 14(?)-song acetate, or the Basement Safety reel, followed by 1 or 2 discs of the best-of-the-rest, cherry-picked for performance and audio quality.

    For the acetate release, each track would be presented in best quality, so that it reflected the exact performance and timings of the original, but with upgraded audio. The additional disc(s) would be compiled and sequenced for the best listening experience, with minimal duplication. We already have pretty comprehensive collections for the academics, don't we? Keep this one simple and do it right- one of the contemporary documents plus a best-of-the-rest.
    :hide:
     
  13. goombay

    goombay Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dixie
    there will someday be a basement tapes box set. with book.
     
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  14. At this rate, I'd be happy with an official version of A Tree With Roots, preferably featuring comprehensive liner notes from a good historian, some comments by Dylan himself and perhaps a few of the other major players, not to mention previously unseen images, plus extensive documentation on how the recordings were located, prepared then mastered... a 4 CD upgrade of the original Basement Tapes in such a box with an accompanying book seems reasonable enough to expect! So why are we still waiting, then?
     
  15. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago

    It's been discussed on other threads, but yes, I would like a vinyl replica of the 14-song acetate, looking something like this:


    [​IMG]

    And I also think that some of the lesser-quality/frgamented tracks could be made available as legitimate downloads, saving the decent-sounding, complete songs for the box set.
     
  16. revolution_vanderbilt

    revolution_vanderbilt Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Been thinking for a while, how could they go about making things better? Both in terms of the original album and releasing additional material. Here is what I came up with:

    First, release the album, using the best possible sources. Retain overdubs where they exist, but otherwise get all the tracks to sound as good as they can.

    Second, do a good job of releasing more tracks. Include undubbed versions where necessary. How much can we expect? 2 discs? 3? 1 disc of alternate takes and undubbeds, 1 disc of other Dylan originals, 1 disc of covers? The main reason I'd want a proper release, above all, is that they would have the best chance of coming up with better sources.
     
  17. I firmly agree, though I don't think it's a top priority at the moment.
     
  18. goombay

    goombay Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dixie
    correct; there will be several releases before it comes out including new bob material but it will come out eventually, its been worked on for several years. with a book.
     
  19. DmitriKaramazov

    DmitriKaramazov Senior Member

    Hope it's while the Herd is still above ground.
     
  20. majorlance

    majorlance Forum Resident

    Location:
    PATCO Speedline
    You're making too much sense, Ron — it'll never happen!
     
  21. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    I've mentioned this before in other threads, but the only problem with a complete Basements Bootleg Series release would be that it would pretty much make the original (canon) album obsolete. No previous BS has done that.

    My suggestion would be a 2CD set (usual BS procedure), collecting the alternate takes of the 'main' songs, alternate undubbed mixes of one-take-only originals like 'This Wheel's On Fire', and the best covers and non-LP originals.

    Maybe the deluxe edition can have an extra disc of the album takes, sourced from the original tapes (similar to how the ASP deluxe included the original album). I just can't see Dylan/Sony making the original album obsolete.
     
  22. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Well, since the official album is tracks folded into mono, a stereo BS series version would follow the formula, right? They did the reverse with the mono LP box.
     
  23. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    True, but a BS 2-disc set (which there's bound to be, IMO, whatever other format is also released) will completely trounce the 2-disc original album. And provide more songs, less Band, and (hopefully) better sound quality.

    Who will be left to buy the original 'official/canon' album from that point forward, if all those takes are also on the BS set? Not even a casual fan. Unless Dylan and Sony are happy for it to become obsolete, which would be a first.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
  24. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Well, the original Let It Be and Let It Be Naked both still sell pretty well, right? Some people will still want the '75 Basement Tapes album, although fewer as time goes by.

    You are right, of course, that Sony will offer some sort of 2-disc basic version of whatever BS box set they issue, just like did with ASP, although what form that would take I haven't a clue.
     
    slane likes this.
  25. GetRhythm

    GetRhythm Senior Member Thread Starter

    You guys are really all that positive that Sony really has the goods; i.e., the original reels in usable condition or a reasonable facsimile? How do you know?
     
    Ender likes this.
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