Bob Dylan's Basement Tapes - where we're currently at (Part 6)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by hodgo, Nov 8, 2014.

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  1. Booga

    Booga Forum Resident

    Ah, of course, I'd completely forgotten about reel 20! And your point about reel 13 makes sense - plus I've just remembered that reel 16 is a composite of earlier reels...I have more confidence in the accuracy of the content of the reels above than the numbering though!
     
  2. TeddyB

    TeddyB Senior Member

    Location:
    Hollywoodland
    It might be noted that they don't start loosening up and having fun until reel four. Does this further suggest that reel four is the first at Big Pink, and not at Bob's house?
     
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  3. Peter Pyle

    Peter Pyle Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario CAN
    I have to give this a re-spin. Disc 6 generally I had to get past the sound, but overall some nice gems in there, like "Wild Wolf".
     
  4. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    So much excellent information and top-notch analysis flying around here -- it's really tough to keep up. Here is my second attempt at a tentative rundown of the Basement reels, after absorbing and often shamefully stealing theories and ideas from the other forum contributors (you all know who you are!)

    I cannot, for the life of me, figure out the exact number of reels that may still exist -- as few as ten, or as many as seventeen. And there seems to be no definitive method of determining the true chronological recording sequence of many of the songs.

    So, to paraphrase Johnny McCartney, Paul's grandfather, "Come on, you bunch of paid assassins -- (Hominy Rhodes) will give you a run for your money!" (Comments, please.)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    RED ROOM: per Heylin -- (2) reels, three sides used
    1 Edge of the Ocean
    2 My Bucket's Got a Hole in It
    3 Roll on Train
    4 Mr. Blue
    118 2 Dollars and 99 Cents
    119 Jelly Bean
    120 Any Time
    121 Down by the Station
    122 Hallelujah, I've Just Been Moved
    123 That's the Breaks
    124 Pretty Mary
    125 Will the Circle Be Unbroken
    126 King of France
    127 She's on My Mind Again
    132 Northern Claim
    133 Love Is Only Mine
    134 Silhouettes
    135 Bring It on Home
    137 The Spanish Song (Take 1)
    138 The Spanish Song (Take 2)
    139 900 Miles From My Home / Confidential
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    RED ROOM -- UNRELEASED per Griffin/hollowhorn/fangedesire, et al
    - CATFISH BLUES – TAKES 1-4 (2:09, :43, 1:22, 1:00)
    - I’M SO GLAD ABOUT IT (2:08)
    - JELLY BEAN – TAKE 2 (2:29)
    - JOSEY WALES (with Binson Delay) (3:10)
    - LESITA (JESITA) MAROLLA (3:03)
    - LOVE IS ONLY MINE – TAKE 2 (1:13)
    - I AM FOR YOU, BABY (1:48)
    - ON THE AVENUE (1:22)

    - WORK WITH ME, ANNIE (2:03)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    (I'm still of the opinion that the Big Pink recordings started with THIS reel: )
    BIG PINK(?)
    5 Belshazzar
    6 I Forgot to Remember to Forget
    7 You Win Again
    8 Still in Town
    9 Waltzing with Sin
    10 Big River (Take 1)
    11 Big River (Take 2)
    12 Folsom Prison Blues
    13 Bells of Rhymney
    128 Goin' Down the Road Feeling Bad
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    14 Spanish Is the Loving Tongue
    129 On a Rainy Afternoon
    130 I Can't Come in with a Broken Heart
    131 Next Time on the Highway
    136 Come All Ye Fair and Tender Ladies
    15 Under Control
    16 Ol' Roison the Beau
    17 I'm Guilty of Loving You
    23 Johnny Todd
    18 Cool Water
    19 The Auld Triangle
    20 Po' Lazarus

    UNRELEASED
    + PO’ LAZARUS – TAKE 2 (4:21)
    + OL’ ROISIN THE BEAU – TAKE 1 (4:46)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    21 I'm a Fool for You (Take 1)
    22 I'm a Fool for You (Take 2)
    24 Tupelo
    25 Kickin' My Dog Around
    26 See You Later Allen Ginsberg (Take 1)
    27 See You Later Allen Ginsberg (Take 2)
    28 Tiny Montgomery
    29 Big Dog
    30 I'm Your Teenage Prayer
    31 Four Strong Winds
    32 The French Girl (Take 1)
    33 The French Girl (Take 2)
    34 Joshua Gone Barbados
    35 I'm in the Mood
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    36 Baby Ain't That Fine
    37 Rock, Salt and Nails
    38 A Fool Such as I
    39 Song for Canada
    40 People Get Ready
    41 I Don't Hurt Anymore
    42 Be Careful of Stones That You Throw
    43 One Man's Loss
    44 Lock Your Door
    45 Baby, Won't You Be My Baby
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    46 Try Me Little Girl
    47 I Can't Make It Alone
    48 Don't You Try Me Now
    49 Young But Daily Growing
    50 Bonnie Ship the Diamond
    51 The Hills of Mexico
    52 Down on Me
    53 One for the Road
    54 I'm Alright

    UNRELEASED
    + I’M ALRIGHT – TAKE 2 (2:38)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    55 Million Dollar Bash (Take 1)
    56 Million Dollar Bash (Take 2)
    57 Yea! Heavy and a Bottle of Bread (Take 1)
    58 Yea! Heavy and a Bottle of Bread (Take 2)
    59 I'm Not There
    60 Please Mrs. Henry
    61 Crash on the Levee (Take 1)
    62 Crash on the Levee (Take 2)
    63 Lo and Behold! (Take 1)
    64 Lo and Behold! (Take 2)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    65 You Ain't Goin' Nowhere (Take 1)
    66 You Ain't Goin' Nowhere (Take 2)
    67 I Shall Be Released (Take 1)
    68 I Shall Be Released (Take 2)
    69 This Wheel's on Fire
    70 Too Much of Nothing (Take 1)
    71 Too Much of Nothing (Take 2)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    72 Tears of Rage (Take 1)
    73 Tears of Rage (Take 2)
    74 Tears of Rage (Take 3)
    75 Quinn the Eskimo (Take 1)
    76 Quinn the Eskimo (Take 2)
    77 Open the Door Homer (Take 1)
    78 Open the Door Homer (Take 2)
    79 Open the Door Homer (Take 3)
    80 Nothing Was Delivered (Take 1)
    81 Nothing Was Delivered (Take 2)
    82 Nothing Was Delivered (Take 3)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "ORPHAN" reel?
    83 All American Boy
    84 Sign on the Cross
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    85 Odds and Ends (Take 1)
    86 Odds and Ends (Take 2)
    87 Get Your Rocks Off
    88 Clothes Line Saga
    89 Apple Suckling Tree (Take 1)
    90 Apple Suckling Tree (Take 2)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    WITTENBERG ROAD

    "ORPHAN" reel(s)?
    112 Goin' to Acapulco
    113 Gonna Get You Now
    114 If I Were a Carpenter
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    COMPOSITE REEL ["#16"]
    91 Don't Ya Tell Henry
    92 Bourbon Street
    93 Blowin' in the Wind
    94 One Too Many Mornings
    95 A Satisfied Mind
    96 It Ain't Me, Babe
    97 Ain't No More Cane (Take 1)
    98 Ain't No More Cane (Take 2)
    99 My Woman She's a-Leavin'
    100 Santa-Fe
    101 Mary Lou, I Love You Too
    102 Dress It Up, Better Have It All
    103 Minstrel Boy
    104 Silent Weekend
    105 What's It Gonna Be when It Comes Up
    106 900 Miles From My Home
    111 Wild Wolf

    UNRELEASED
    + WILD WOLF – TAKE 1 (3:36)
    + BOURBON STREET – TAKE 2 (5:10)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "ORPHAN" reel?
    116 All You Have to Do Is Dream (Take 1)
    117 All You Have to Do Is Dream (Take 2)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    (I also still believe that THIS was the final group of recordings made by Dylan and The Band, probably in 1968, despite the fact that Sid Griffin dates them to no later than October 1967.)
    107 Wildwood Flower
    108 One Kind Favor
    109 She'll Be Coming Round the Mountain
    110 It's the Flight of the Bumblebee
    115 Confidential

    UNRELEASED
    + BERKOWITZ BLUES (1:54)
    + INSTRUMENTAL JAM (2:02)
    + CONFIDENTIAL (version III) (3:09)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2014
  5. TeddyB

    TeddyB Senior Member

    Location:
    Hollywoodland
    If the Odds and Ends tape is 13 it could explain why these songs weren't as featured on the acetate? Maybe it was just that they were late additions. Though Garth did stick on Get Your Rocks Off and Nothing Was Delivered, which they'd been working on. I suspect the best way to attack the composite reel 16 is to try and parse out which songs Levon is on.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2014
  6. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Would you recognize Levon by his harmony vocals, or by his drumming?
     
  7. TeddyB

    TeddyB Senior Member

    Location:
    Hollywoodland
    Either one, if one could pick him out.
     
  8. Mike D'Aversa

    Mike D'Aversa Senior Member

    I don't envy anyone trying to do this.

    It's harder to detect an individual vocal within a stack of harmony, despite one's voice being much more difficult to imitate than their playing style.

    I guess I'm sayin', good luck!
     
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  9. soniclovenoize

    soniclovenoize Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Hmm, I don't think it's Levon at all on the Odds and Ends reel, I think it's all Manuel still. The drumming is all very sloppy and attempted to play straight, and lacks Levon's nuanced percussion. Doesn't sound like him, although it's interesting that after many tapes of mostly no drums, they suddenly had a hankerin for a drummer to return! So yeah, I think the O&E reel (if it's 11 or 13) was still at Big Pink, before the return of Levon and the move to Wittenberg. Also Heylin claims in the box notes that the Reel 16 stuff (Blowin in the Wind, It Ain't Me Babe) was the first with Levon, and all of those recordings have a unique set-up, as mentioned earlier by Hominy and probably GM, it soudns like a only a vocal mic and a room mic; less sophisticated or at pristine than the earlier Big Pink recordings, in which I'd say the O&E reel still falls under. Also note the lack of echo on Dylan's vocals...

    But yeah I agree with why that tape was not on any publishing demos (except the Safety Tape of course)
     
    GetRhythm likes this.
  10. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    I agree that it's Richard on the Odds and Ends reel. After Levon returned, he was floored by how good Richard sounded on the drums, after playing in the basement for a few months.
     
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  11. hollowhorn

    hollowhorn In Memoriam In Memoriam

    Location:
    Isle of Asda
    Thank-you, just what I was looking for.
     
  12. asdf35

    asdf35 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin TX
    Re: Red Room

    I think "The Spanish Song" saga was from later, in the realm of the "Tiny Montgomery" reel.

    I also think "900 Miles" and "Confidential" are an unrelated compiler mash-up,
    not recorded or reel'd together.

    This "900 Miles" falls before "Goin Down The Road Feeling Bad" on Belshazzar reel.

    As for the rest of the Red Room reel, please someone grab headphones and listen close.
    I think the following tracks were recorded together due to the consistent instrumentation.
    (I know, I'm beating a dead Red horse...)

    Edge of the Ocean
    Two Dollars and 99 Cents
    Jelly Bean
    Any Time
    Down By the Station
    That’s The Breaks
    Northern Claim
    Love is Only Mine
    --------------
    My Buckets got a Hole In It
    Hallelujah, I’ve Just Been Moved
    ----------
    Roll On Train
    Mr. Blue
    ------------
    Pretty Mary
    Will the Circle Be Unbroken
    King of France
    Silhouettes
    Bring it on Home
    ----------
    She’s On My Mind Again (this one stands alone in recording technique and instrumentation)
     
  13. a sound painter

    a sound painter The no drama drumma

    Very happy in my basement now. I can't say too much at this point beyond hysterical superlative filled raving. I'm gob-smacked at what I'm hearing, the best stuff here (and there's a lot of that) is my favourite Dylan; the Dylan release I've been waiting all these years for. It hasn't disappointed yet, but continues to astound.

    Oh, and what I've heard from disc 6 still sounds way clearer than some of my favourite 78s. While I haven't heard many of the bootlegged songs before, the whole set seems to have really been cleaned up nicely, while arguably preserving the atmosphere and ambience that has always surrounded this material. I'd also say the set is well designed, and while the tracks may not be in perfect chronological or complete order, it has been logically sequenced and presented.

    That's all for now folks, it's back to the basement tapes hibernation of joy! :pleased:
     
  14. Bemagnus

    Bemagnus Music is fun

    I certanely agree that criticism is very important. I can t remember anywhere I have ever said that criticism should not be voiced. What I have stated is that I personally don t care about those-according to the sources-extremely low-fi missing tracks. Neither do I care for the edits that occur here and there. I am not a completist but have been one and understand the opnions. Something I clearly have said in my postings.
    To say as you do- that I don t think any criticisn should be voiced is-imo- using that old Strawman-argument.
    Even criticism sometimes can be criticised. Not really the same as claiming it should not be voiced.?
     
  15. Jbeck57143

    Jbeck57143 Forum Resident

    Location:
    IL, USA
    The word smog been around a long time (since the early 20th century according to Wikipedia) Here it is in a Three Stooges short from 1957 (at about the 1 minute mark):
     
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  16. asdf35

    asdf35 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin TX
    While I don't have a precise list, I am slowly restoring everything for my own personal use.
    I am going Disc by Disc (then I have to sort everything chronologically....ugh...).
    Others will no doubt post it, but if not I will post my list later.

    I'm accounting for everything.....
    For instance a small spoken "well..." at the end of "Bells Of Rhymney"
    ...and extra nose sniffles at the end of "Spanish Is The Loving Tongue."

    No kidding.
     
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  17. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    You have it down right, as far as I can tell. I simply lumped all the Red Room recordings together in a bunch, without trying to sequence them properly, as you have clearly done. I need to listen to them again more carefully, and I will use your list as a guide.

    She’s On My Mind Again could have been a Dylan classic if he would have just worked it out a little more! Those minor chords he throws in there are sweet. I like the track a lot, even through that damned distortion. I have a much lower opinion of Jelly Bean and a few of the others.
     
  18. Bemagnus

    Bemagnus Music is fun

    Thank you for your effort.? Didn t think much of Wild Wolf first listenings. But after a few spinns it really grabs me. Really one great-before unheard song. Musically I find it different than most anything on the BT but there is something both in the music and arrangement that have a certain Im not there feel. Anothee rathee unique song.
    Question is if Dylan ever dug deeper than during his "lost" year I personally regards some of Basement tapes as among Dylans best work . And that we- after all these years are able to hear some great, unheard songs is really amazing
     
  19. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    I've largely ignored the "six disc" formatting, and simply treated all of this as a collection of 139 tracks, which I tried to put in some type of chronological order. I understand why the compilers placed most of the audio-challenged recordings on the bonus disc, but I don't mind hearing the good with the bad, sound quality-wise.
     
  20. asdf35

    asdf35 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin TX
    Yes, I'm just piecing togther things from 1 disc at a time - and saving the files.
    Then later, after you all get your chronologies together...I will burn discs.

    I will end up with at least 8 discs...I truely prefer smaller batches of recordings,
    and in their recorded order.

    But, I must say the box set discs flow really well. There I said it!
    I can admit it....
     
  21. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    I've just been sampling a lot of the tracks to try and figure out when the drums started to kick in. The earliest use of a drum kit (as opposed to a tambourine, handclaps, or what have you) seems to be on I'm Your Teenage Prayer, and then we don't hear them again until One Man's Loss.

    Didn't I read somewhere that Robbie also played drums, alternating with Richard, until Levon returned to the fold?
     
  22. asdf35

    asdf35 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin TX
    Funny you mention this. I was thinking how much I think I hear drums, or feel like I hear drums
    or percussion in Basement tracks, when it's not really there (it's gone)...

    Actually the percussion of the guitar, piano, etc gives me the impression of drums somehow.
    Does that make sense?
     
  23. Tom Schreck

    Tom Schreck Forum Resident

    Totally! I don't miss the drums at all when they're not there.
     
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  24. HominyRhodes

    HominyRhodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    That's how they did it at Sun Records! (Johnny Cash, Elvis, etc.)

    EDIT: The drums on This Wheel's On Fire now seem to be kind of "erratic." That may be why they added all the reverb in 1975, to fatten up the sound a little. I didn't really notice it on the original BT album.
     
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  25. Mike D'Aversa

    Mike D'Aversa Senior Member

    Maybe this is what I was thinking of (I was close - it's by a guy who tried out for The Monkees, and several talented guys from Canada)?

    Band demo (basic track recorded in late 1966, for release on "scrapped" second album (originally due for release in spring/summer 1967) called 'Stampede' -



    The above is the poorly edited chopped up official release. Bootlegs contain the superior unedited version...
     
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