Bob Dylan's Bootleg Series, Vol. 10 (part2) Bob Dylan

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MilesSmiles, Jul 20, 2013.

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  1. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Apple Consigliere In Waiting

    Location:
    Bergenfield, NJ
    Yeah, I listened to KOL an awful lot too; my family went on a camping trip right after it came out, so I listened to it dozens of times within the first week or two ... less often after that! But I still retain some residual fondness for it, long after deciding that it was not one of his best efforts. "Maybe Someday" could have been a great latter-day put-down song, in the vein of "Positively 4th Street," with some better lyrics and a musical backing that had a pulse. Bob puts some energy into the vocals, though. "Brownsville Girl" is either a fascinating mess or a masterpiece, depending on who's calling it (I lean towards masterpiece); and I unabashedly love "Under Your Spell." "You Wanna Ramble" is fun, and "Got My Mind Made Up" is a decent rocker. Hey, that's almost half the album! Someday, when Jeff Rosen hires me to assemble Empire Loaded -- Knocked Out Of The Groove: Bootleg Series Vol. 22, I'll get to dig into the sessions that Rolling Stone was raving about in their Summer Issue of 1986, and see what all the fuss was about.
     
  2. mrjinks

    mrjinks Optimistically Challenged

    Location:
    Boise, ID.
    I'm with you on that. Just please don't make me go on a camping trip with nothing but KOL for "listening pleasure". ;-)

    For those who are fans of Brownsville Girl, I highly recommend listening to the version on the 3cd "Dylan" compilation from a few years back. It's a remix that got a sort of "stealth" release on that set. It's been mentioned on this forum before, but it would be easy to miss. I don't normally notice subtle variations in sound, but that one had me sitting straight up in my chair the first time I heard it.
     
  3. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    I think there is way more going on in "Under Your Spell" than meets the eye. I also think if that song is on "Time Out of Mind" the general Dylan population would hold it in much higher regard, rather than dismissing it based on the company it keeps.

    Is "Under Your Spell" a conversation between two people, or is it all a single narrator with some serious mental stability issues? Assuming for a moment the song is all from a single narrator, he is dismissive in one verse ("I'll call you tomorrow if there's phones where I am" - talk about a brush-off - and I always heard the line as "I'll call you tomorrow if THIS phone's where I am", which I think is even more flippant and cruel) but nearly a crazed stalker in the next ("You'll never get rid of me, as long as I'm alive"). A short time later SHE's crying about his departure?

    He's obviously at a low point ("knocked out and loaded", his "last dream exploded", he's "in a bit of a jam") when he sees that her light is on and comes to her door. He also later admits to being "out of his head". Can we trust anything he says? Can she? More than your average pop song here folks!
     
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  4. RayS

    RayS A Little Bit Older and a Little Bit Slower

    Location:
    Out of My Element
    My commute to and from work in 1986 was just about 11 minutes. Many times it would be "Brownsville Girl" at 9, and "Brownsville Girl" again at 5. I just couldn't get it out of my head :)
     
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  5. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Apple Consigliere In Waiting

    Location:
    Bergenfield, NJ
    Yeah, definitely -- "Maybe next time I'll let the dead bury the dead"? Yikes! Plus the song ends with the singer possibly dying "two feet from the well." I think the title and the smooth, silky background vocals -- which I don't mind, in contrast to most of the times Bob used female backup singers -- trick people into thinking the song is fluff. There's definitely something much weirder going on than that.
     
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  6. aoxomoxoa

    aoxomoxoa One man gathers what another man spills

    Location:
    Dayton Ohio
    I figure they will release it as a stand alone after I spring for the overpriced book set.
     
  7. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    Ya know... Looking at the session logs, it looks like the Empire Burlesque/Knocked Out Loaded/Down In The Groove era might be the only other period that is as poorly represented on bootleg as the Self Portrait/New Morning years. I don't have the same optimism that the vault may contain the same riches as the upcoming BS10 (and even that remains to be proven), but it does make one wonder about the possibilities.

    Please, Sony. Get those Blood on the Tracks, Blonde on Blonde, and Basement Tapes sets out first. But I won't dismiss the possibility that a very intriguing collection could be assembled from the mid-80's nadir. Just make sure "Band of the Hand" is on there somewhere. And don't forget the Live Aid version of "That Lucky Ol' Sun" while you're at it.

    BTW, Sean and Ray, you got me to listen to "Under Your Spell" again. Thanks for your insight. You're both right. It's much better than I had previously given it credit (though I still find those female backing vox to be excruciating). I really should have known that the last song on any Dylan album should always be given extra scrutiny.
     
  8. Petrofsk

    Petrofsk Gort to Get You into My Life! Staff

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
  9. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    I just finished a listen of IOW. So glad this is finally getting an official release.

    I hope I'm not devaluing other people's perfectly legitimate opinions, but I strongly suspect that many people's dismissal of this show is based on one primary factor: "Like A Rolling Stone" on Self Portrait. And if that's the case, it's really Dylan's (and/or Bob Johnson's) fault-- not only did he include this shambolic rendition on the original album, it was also sequenced first among the 4 IOW tracks that were utilized on that album. So no wonder that it serves to define so many people's impressions of the greater whole. And yeah, Dylan's forgetting lyrics left and right, and it's almost impossible to escape the conclusion that he's disengaged from the performance (particularly in light of Dylan's '66 tour uncanny word-perfect renditions of his longest and most ambitious lyrical epics). But the fact that often gets overlooked is that LARS is the *only* clear instance of Dylan drifting away from the laser-like intensity that defines his best performances. It also overlooks the fact that The Band never fail to provide inspired backing, even if it doesn't have the same slashing attack edge as the earlier '66 incarnation.

    When I listen to the show in it's entirety, not only am I hearing a loose and joyful performance, but the setlist seems like the perfect balance between crowd-pleasing favorites ("Highway 61 Revisited", "Maggie's Farm"), genuine rarities ("Wild Mountain Thyme", "Minstrel Boy") and recent highlights (choice JWH and NS and even Basement Tapes selections), not to mention a terrific solo spotlight early in the proceedings. And it's a one-of-it's-kind opportunity to hear Dylan interpret some of his most well known material in his "Nashville" voice.

    The performance is long enough to feel totally satisfying, and short enough to readily digest in a single sitting. Even LIVE 1966 (which will likely never be topped in my opinion), with it's brilliant concept of "separate but equal" (in the good sense of the term!) acoustic and band sections, usually only inspires me to listen to one of it's two discs at any one time, depending on my mood. With IOW I almost always begin with "She Belongs To You" (which, incidentally, also opens Live 1966) and end with "Rainy Day Woman #12 & 35." This is really one of the exceptionally few examples of a Dylan concert that really works as a compelling album in it's own right (which isn't to say I don't want more full-concert releases, just that I'm not always going to be listening to them in a single sitting).
     
  10. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    For the sake of conversation let me list here some of the intruiging early track listings of the New Morning and Dylan LPs, which, if anything, further demonstrate how inextricably the two albums are tied together. It's fun to sometimes look back on what might have been, although in this case it just further demands an answer as to why "Tomorrow Is A Long Time" didn't make the cut for BS10:

    First NEW MORNING sequence:

    side one
    1. Mr Bojangles
    2. Ballad of Ira Hayes
    3. The Man In Me
    4 One More Weekend

    side two
    5. New Morning
    6. Father of Night
    7. Sign on The Window
    8. Tomorrow is a Long Time
    9. If Dogs Run Free

    Second New Morning sequence ("Al's Mix"):

    1. The Man In Me
    2. Winterlude
    3. Mary Ann
    4. One More Weekend
    5. Mr Bojangles
    6. Tomorrow Is A Long Time
    7. Three Angels
    8. If Dogs Run Free
    9. Ballad of Ira Hayes

    [I don't know how the sides broke down in this case, but I'd guess that it was similar to the first sequence. Also, I assume that the overdubbed version of "New Morning" was the one that was going to be used here]

    First DYLAN sequence:

    side one
    1. Mr Bojangles
    2. The Ballad of Ira Hayes
    3. A Fool Such As I
    4. Spanish Is The Loving Tongue
    5. Mary Ann

    side two
    6. Runnin' [from the Self Portrait sessions. Anyone know the song Dylan was covering here?]
    7. Sarah Jane
    8. Lily Of The West
    9. Alligator Man

    [I find it interesting that all the Self Portrait songs in this sequence were from the early Nashville sessions. I wonder if the NYC outtakes were lost or inaccessible at the time?]
     
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  11. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    Anyone else get the impression that this new collection may have been originally sequenced chronologically, and then shuffled up a bit to enhance listenability? At the very least, it seems like disc one leans heavily on Self Portrait material, with disc two more strongly New Morning centered.
     
  12. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room

    I think the ultra-generic title (in addition to the dated 80's production) has really contributed to the song being vastly underestimate over the years. This would be a very nice one to get in a stripped-down version.
     
  13. GAW Jr.

    GAW Jr. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Hi Dee T, I enjoyed your post, much like "Self Portrait" era Boot 10, there likely are hidden treasures in the Mid-80's (Stripped - Under My Spell, etc). PS. Pretty sure you meant "That Lucky Ol' Sun" from "Farm Aid 85". Cheers...



     
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  14. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    You are right. I seem to have confused my "Aid" benefit concerts.
     
  15. Sean Murdock

    Sean Murdock Apple Consigliere In Waiting

    Location:
    Bergenfield, NJ
    Yeah, that occurred to me too -- and of course the first thing I'll do when I get the set is dump it into a playlist and put it in chronological order... :shake::agree:
     
  16. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Yeah, those tracklistings are interesting. However, I think that both of the rejected 'New Morning' sequences are a bit half-baked. What was the thinking behind them, with their mixes of originals and covers? Another 'Self Portrait' type album? IIRC, Heylin assumes that the negative reaction to SP made Dylan eventually issue an album of just originals. That 'If Not For You' is not on either list seems baffling.

    I totally agree that 'Tomorrow Is A Long Time' should be on BS10. I wonder if Bob ever considered including it on 'Greatest Hits 2' in 1971? Was he not happy with it then, so included the 1963 recording instead? Is he still not happy with it?

    I hadn't seen the alternate 'Dylan' tracklist before. The only thing I can gather about it is that if the list is accurate and complete, then the two unheard tracks from Side 2 must be quite lengthy recordings, going by the total length of Side 1 and presuming that the length of Side 2 would be roughly equal.

    As to why no 1970 'Self Portrait' recordings were included on the 'Dylan' album, my guess would be that they were deemed 'unfinished' compared to the 1969 Nashville recordings and the 1970 'New Morning' outtakes, as the released 1970 SP recordings received overdubs in Nashville. They will be great for this 'Bootleg Series', but maybe not for Columbia's 1973 album, where they probably wanted to go for tracks that sounded finished.

    Which brings the question: Were the 1970 SP recordings planned to be overdubbed in Nashville right from the start? Or was that decision made after the recordings had been made?
     
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  17. JayDeeEss

    JayDeeEss Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    I'm like 95% that's supposed to be a painting of Kerouac.
     
  18. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Actually, you're right Sean. Since the deluxe edition of BS10 canabalizes ITSELF by repeating 2 of the Isle Of Wight live tracks, and that the BS4 version of 'Like A Rolling Stone' is also included on BS7, there's no reason not to include the 2 tracks you mention above! :righton:
     
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  19. hoggydoggy

    hoggydoggy Forum Resident

    I'd wager those tracklistings were compiled sometime in June/July 1970; there's also no Day Of The Locusts or Time Passes Slowly on either of these tracklistings - the final masters of all three of those songs weren't recorded until August 12th 1970, according to Krogsgaard.

    I think you're onto something about the structure of the album, though - whilst it's nonsense to suggest the recording of the New Morning material was a reaction to Self Portrait's press reviews (as we know, a goodly chunk of the album was already in the can, by the time that SP was released), the fact that Bob did more recording in August, three weeks after the previous NM sessions and revised the final album to remove ALL the covers does suggest some sort of response to at least some of the criticisms of SP.
     
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  20. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England

    Yeah, I didn't mention the omission of 'Day Of The Locusts', as that wasn't recorded at all until August 1970. The other 2 songs had already been recorded in various versions though, albeit not the versions that were eventually released. I agree that those alternate tracklistings must come from earlier. I'm glad Bob had a re-think!
     
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  21. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England

    I haven't listened to it in ages, but I seem to remember that the version of LARS that Bob did at The Band's 'Rock Of Ages' concert in 1971 had him forgetting the lyrics in a very similar fashion to the 'Self Portrait' version! Almost like he had been listening to and got used to the SP version. (In fact, the 1971 version is almost a perfect cross between the 1969 'Self Portrait' version and the later 1974 'Before The Flood' version.)

    And if Dylan did help compile the 1978 'Masterpieces' compilation as Clinton Heylin suggests, did he choose the 'Self Portrait' version of LARS to be included on it? Might he genuinely actually like that version?!?
     
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  22. Easy-E

    Easy-E Forum Resident

    Have you found a photo of Kerouac with his hair brushed back like that though. I'm looking a the back covers of the 4 Kerouac paperbacks I have handy and all of them have a phot of Jack with neat short standard mens haircut. An earlier post has Camus as an option, he certainly had his hair pushed back, James Dean as well. And the polo necked sweater is a Dean motif
     
  23. hoggydoggy

    hoggydoggy Forum Resident

    Me too!

    Just to clarify the intent of my last post: I believe that the sequencing and tracklisting of NM might well have been influenced by the presss reaction to SP (as evidenced by the re-recording of two of the Dylan originals - Time Passes Slowly and If Not For You - as well as the addition of the newly-written Day Of The Locusts in August, and then subsequent removal of all of the cover versions from the final album sequence). What I disagree with (and I'm not suggesting this of you, slane!) is the idea that, so far as NM is concerned, his original intention was to solely make an album of Dylan compositions - that's a nonsensical idea to me, as both the recording dates of the NM sessions and the presence of so much effort into the various NM-era covers demonstrates.
     
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  24. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England

    Totally agree.
     
  25. DeeThomaz

    DeeThomaz Senior Member

    Location:
    In The Felony Room
    I had heard about the provisional track listing for ages, but not seen it for myself until I stumbled on this photo of a studio sheet on an article about the '73 album. 73.jpg

    I'm not sure how much weight to give the note on the bottom right (selections not cleared are not in sequence) as the other evidence certainly suggest to me that some thought has gone into the sequence as listed (though, as mentioned, side two does seem slim). At the very least, it verifies which tracks were intended to be on the LP at this point in time. Also has some production credits that are new to me. The first credit is clearly Bob Johnson, and I assume the full name on the "Album Assembled and Re-mixed by" credit is Mark Spector, who was a Columbia A& R man in the 70's. And we can see that Jerry Smith is listed as the remix engineer. I believe this is the first time I've ever seen distinct credits for this album, aside from the "original sessions produced by" credit that is on my CD (is the LP more detailed?).
     
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