Borders in trouble - B&N not much better

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by paulg61, Dec 19, 2010.

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  1. paulg61

    paulg61 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    CT
  2. sgb

    sgb Senior Member

    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    CC's Coffee House makes better coffee anyway.
     
  3. il pleut

    il pleut New Member

    do they sell books?
     
  4. sgb

    sgb Senior Member

    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    ^^ No, but apparently neither Borders nor Barnes and Chernobyl are selling any either.
     
    Tedster likes this.
  5. ridernyc

    ridernyc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida, USA
    It's just time to admit that the online warehouses will take over retail. There is no way a brick and mortar can compete.
     
  6. sgb

    sgb Senior Member

    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    ^^ That presumes that consumers will still be able to purchase most things without paying sales tax. If they're suddenly faced with paying both a shipping charge and the tax they would pay locally, then the only thing left for the online retailers is convenience. I, for one, dread shopping in brick and mortar because of the time and expense to get to a store and then have to compete for a parking space. What could possibly be better than having FedEx or UPS delivering something that is precisely what you wanted to your front door?
     
  7. jimac51

    jimac51 A mythical beast.

    Location:
    Allentown,pa.
    As stated in that skimpy article,what might keep B&N alive,for a while,is the Nook. I talked to a newly hired temp at the new-to-this-area Amazon warehouse and she said all they do is ship Kindles. Hey,I ordered one for my wife,free freight was going to be the usual 7-9 days. but 72 hours later it's on the doorstep. Makes sense. I got the razor,now I gotta buy blades and that is why Amazon is so smart,so far. The Nook has some qualities that would have one purchase the Nook over the Kindle,besides B&N demonstrating the ereader in the most valuable piece of real estate in every store. Those hands on demos can be very beneficial at snagging customers and once you've made a decision,you probably don't turn back.Borders is late in the ereader game,and have already lowered themselves to being compatible with,Slick, a device now available at Big Lots. So whatever they are doing already has that "inferior" label. Borders has a number of different ereaders at store level and that may also be part of the problem,as they seem to do everything wrong. Confusion reigns supreme,especially with novices, with too many choices.
     
  8. ringosshed

    ringosshed Forum Resident

    Location:
    san diego
    The Barnes and Noble by me is always busy.
     
  9. cdash99

    cdash99 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mass
    B&N and other on line retailers that have physical stores already charge sales tax. Their error, from my perspective is that the on line pricing for many items is cheaper than that of the stores. If they were the same I would shop in the store more often. The $30 store vs web price difference for the Springsteen box is one example of this.



    Sometimes getting out of the house is a good idea. Using my other passion (NFL) as an example, I'd much rather go to the games when possible, much as I like watching them in HD. Same goes with browsing for books, music, etc.
     
  10. krlpuretone

    krlpuretone Forum Resident

    Location:
    Grantham, NH
    High overhead based on inventory costs, low margins, declining sales...hmm sounds like a familiar story.
     
  11. agentalbert

    agentalbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    Everytime I've been to a Borders, I just see people treating it like its their living room. Lounging around reading books, taking their shoes off, not buying. And with those prices, I'm not surprised. They do buy coffee, though.
     
  12. swandown

    swandown Under Assistant West Coast Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Yeah, you just described 90% of retail stores in the last 3 years.
     
  13. JoeRockhead

    JoeRockhead Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    It's not just the prices, even when I have a good coupon for Borders there is nothing in there.
     
  14. mj_patrick

    mj_patrick Forum Resident

    Location:
    Elkhart, IN, USA
    Let's see. I was a very loyal B&N and Borders customer for many years, let me take a minute to think just why I tend to shop Amazon now.

    -No tax- definite plus
    -Shipping and Handling usually isn't that bad, it's usually a few bucks for a book and for me that's still cheaper than the time to take the trip and the gas expenses
    -Massive library... if they don't have it, no one does.
    -Often an option to buy new/used
    -Often competitively priced to the major bookstores and the 3rd party sellers often have even better deals.
    -No parking dilemmas
    -Not having to deal with people (that sounds awful, I know). It's convenient to order what you need in your pajamas.
    -I can find what I'm looking for in a few seconds on Amazon.

    The only real drawback I can think of is I have to wait a few days to get it. Yeah, every once in a blue moon I may not receive the right order and/or have to file a claim, but that is still shadowed by bad experiences I've had in brick and mortar stores.

    I don't like to see companies like these in trouble and I don't want to see them go away. But then again I think about a lot of the smaller independent bookstores who went out of business when B&N and Borders became more prominent.
     
  15. nickg

    nickg Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire
    The problem is the pricing, it's like the music industry and the movie industry. The higher the prices get, people will turn elsewhere. Leaving Amazon/iPad/Kindle/Nook/etc out of this for a second, I can go into a Wal-Mart and find the same book (providing it's James Patterson, Stephen King, etc) for at least 3-4 dollars cheaper than Borders or Barnes and Noble. Used bookstores in my area are almost always busy, libraries do well for themselves, why is this? Because books keep getting more and more expensive, it's upwards of $30-$40 for a hardcover book these days, and yet they throw a 20% off and an extra 30% if you're a member making the book about $20, which is about what it costs at Wal-Mart or wait a month and it will show up in a used bookstore.

    Now add in Amazon, their book rates are cheaper, and they have the used section, it's where I buy the majority of my books (prior to getting my iPad), you can get a book that costs more to ship it to you than it cost to buy. Add in ebooks now and with normal prices averaging out at $9.99 a book, where do you think people are going to turn? For people who travel the ebook reader pays for itself soon enough, no more picking which books you want to take with you. I love my iPad cause I have iBooks/Kindle/Nook/Marvel/DC Comics right at my finger tips.
     
  16. Ryan

    Ryan That would be telling

    Location:
    New England
    Agreed. I just today finished most of my Xmas shopping on Amazon. Sure beat the stress-out of driving around at the last minute.
     
  17. nickg

    nickg Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire
    It's probably there it's just filed away in the wrong location. That's always been my problem. Borders put 'The Basketball Diaries' in the poetry section?
     
  18. readandburn

    readandburn Active Member

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    I go to B&N all the time. I buy a latte, read the magazines and browse the books.

    I never buy anything else because I can order anything for a lot less online (I have patience enough to wait the two days to get it delivered). I figure a lot of people do the same thing.

    No, I won't miss B&N when it goes under. I can buy coffee elsewhere.
     
  19. ridernyc

    ridernyc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida, USA
    No because with free shipping the warehouse can always undersell brick and mortar. A small number of warehouse can replace hundreds of stores. There is no way to compete.
     
  20. ringosshed

    ringosshed Forum Resident

    Location:
    san diego

    So you watch and follow these people to see if they actually make purchases?:righton:
     
  21. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Never heard of it. Then again, if I want coffee without buying books, music, or movies, I go to Starbucks.
     
  22. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Of course, the web sites have far more merchandise than the brick-and-mortar stores. I ordered the Face Value Audio Fidelity gold CD today from bn.com. Good luck finding that in one of their stores.

    That said, I much prefer shopping in a brick-and-mortar store. I like browsing the shelves and being able to check the condition of the packaging before I buy. Of course, it's also nice to be able to buy something and use it immediately.
     
  23. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Right. I've seen long lines every time I've been in Borders in the past month. Granted, it's the holidays, but people are buying stuff. I've also never seen people there take their shoes off. Guess I've been lucky.
     
  24. jimac51

    jimac51 A mythical beast.

    Location:
    Allentown,pa.
    Major cities should be able to support a well stocked bookstore. Part of the superstore mentality that got into these retailers was to branch out into areas where maybe they shouldn't have. The following is unscientific.Allentown,Pa.,where I'm writing this,is part of the Lehigh Valley,listed with a population of 790,000. The Lehigh Valley supports two B&Ns,a Borders and one of the last remaining Waldenbooks. The first on the scene was B&N in 1994. Before that,Waldens(multiple locations),Encore(an early east coast discounter) and an indi,Moravian pretty much captured much of the new book business. When that first B&N came to the Valley,it was like the printed word being invented! They had more remainders than some stores had total inventory of books. And the only place for years to get a cup of Starbucks coffee. Doing some quick googling,San Diego seems to have a similar situation as the Lehigh Valley:two B&Ns & a Borders,but with over three times the population. That kind of exposure in smaller populations is part of the problem.
    Like others here,our household uses both stores as a cheap date and list maker for online purchasing. That ain't gonna pay the rent much longer for these chains.
     
  25. readandburn

    readandburn Active Member

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    You are lucky...I see this all the time too. It is gross.
     
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