Box Set Beefs

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Wildest cat from montana, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. The Bear Family Roy Orbison box set has too much dodgy, weak pre-1959 material and only one MGM era song (Ride Away from 1965) -MGM released something like 25 Roy Orbison songs in 1965. I know they had probably major licensing issues with getting the MGM years, but really it kneecapped the release quite a bit.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
  2. Maggie

    Maggie funky but chic

    Toronto, Canada
    Yeah, I think (just off the top of my head) that the added "hum-be-dum-oh-oh" part doesn't exist in stereo.

    Now that it has been almost 10 years since the release of the Smile Sessions, a lot of those versions have gradually been accepted as "canonical", especially by newer listeners. In fact, almost all of the tracks in the main "album" program (disc 1) were freshly assembled by Mark Linett and Alan Boyd from a massive pile of incomplete pieces, and many of the pieces were freshly remixed. In general, they closely followed the sequence of the 2004 Brian Wilson Presents Smile album, which was of course originally developed by Brian and Darian Sahanaja just to work as a concert program. But there are almost no original/vintage mixes or edits there.

    Even the tracks that use vintage edits or mixes as their basis (e.g. "Look" or "Surf's Up") have new elements digitally added, copied from other performances and overlaid onto the old mixes.

    They made everything mono partly because that's how Brian would have made it had it come out in 1967, and partly because some of the pieces only existed in mono.

    But almost nothing in the main album program is "original" in the sense that there is not a single track, to my knowledge, that was mixed and edited in that exact form by Brian in the '60s. "Our Prayer" and "I Wanna Be Around/Workshop" are, I think, the only completely unaltered tracks from the '60s. I'm not sure about "Cabin Essence" but in any case Brian didn't assemble that edit, Carl did.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
  3. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Frankfurt, Germany
    I have never seen a complaint about a CD box set because it does not contain a bonus vinyl LP or 45.
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  4. speedracer

    speedracer Forum Resident

    Who are the Beefs .
    g.z. likes this.
  5. ShockOfDaylight

    ShockOfDaylight Forum Resident

    Detroit, MI
    The awful mix/mastering of Obscured by the Clouds (2016 remix) and Live at Pompeii on Pink Floyd’s The Early Years box set.
    The Obscured remix was pretty pointless to begin with (original mix is fine) and Pompeii was only included after an error. More thought and care should have been put into the Pompeii disc.
    Haggis Wampovich and Pete Puma like this.
  6. And just to pile on. The decision to use less than the best sources for some of the BBC tracks. In particular, using the mono mix for the 1971 Paris Theatre show when the excellent stereo mix was easily available..
    Anthrax, AlienRendel, Sean and 3 others like this.
  7. Lands End Drums

    Lands End Drums Forum Resident

    Boxes like Citizen Steely Dan where the album flow is ruined by cramming it all on 4 discs.

    Def Leppard's The Collection: Volume One where the Def Leppard EP is on a tiny CD single, who the hell has an adapter for those anymore?
  8. Duke Fame

    Duke Fame Sold out the Enormodome

    Tampa, FL
    I get some of the complaints about Maximum R&B, especially now that I'm far more familiar with their work than I was at the time it was released. That being said, I still think it's one of the best box sets ever released. I got rid of mine a long time ago but I might have to grab a used copy next time I see one.

    My beef, and one that hasn't been mentioned yet, is for 40 Licks by the Rolling Stones. 4 new songs and not one song from Dirty Work. Absolutely no reason to not include "One Hit (To the Body)". You could also make a case for "Harlem Shuffle", but not being a Jagger/Richards tune I can understand why that wouldn't make it on.
  9. Solly Bridgetower

    Solly Bridgetower Elton is my golden God of music. Deal with it.

    Ontario, Canada
    Thanks. That's all good information for me to remember, because, much as I love collecting and playing the music of the BBs, not long after the SMiLE box appeared I found the scholarship aspect of the BBs' discography just a bit too complicated to keep up with. I'm almost there with the Beatles too.

    I fully respect the importance of mixes and edits, which ones were prepared and/or released when and under what circumstances, who was responsible, and so forth. That's one reason I find the Monkees' albums (for example), including all their expanded, deluxe, and super deluxe incarnations, so satisfying to collect. Yet, as I get older, even with the Monkees, I tend to care less about the history stuff and just play whatever mix or version feels or sounds right to my ears, regardless of what the artist or band in question had originally released or intended. Sometimes I make the changes myself, if I really feel strongly about it.
    Taxman and Maggie like this.
  10. Picca

    Picca Forum Resident

    Modena, Italy
    Many artists have missed the opportunity - at the right time - to release a great live album. Even if I like it, I've never fully understood Pack Up The Plantation by Tom Petty too. Horns? Background singers? Songs from a club in 78, then some from 1980, then 82..?
  11. GarySteel

    GarySteel Bastard of old

    Molde, Norway
    That would of course be the easiest solution. But then again, these things aren't supposed to be easy or logical, it seems :D

    Thank you both, wasn't aware of these releases. I have the box set on cd and a Japanese ep of "This Charming Man" which contains seven versions of the title track and "Jeane", "Wonderful Woman" and "Accept Yourself". In some ways, I think I'm set but then again... ;)
  12. hallucalation

    hallucalation Forum Resident

    Nowhere Man
    Even Our Prayer is altered. There is vintage 1966 mono mix out there that deleted penultimate acapella bit. Also no way 48 minute (or so) album would had been released in 1966-67.
    Maggie likes this.
  13. Maggie

    Maggie funky but chic

    Toronto, Canada
    I pretty much agree with you. The question of mixes is fraught for some artists. The Byrds are the example that comes to mind for me -- it is still unknown how much of the 1996-7 reissue series was remixed. But the older I get the less I care about such fine distinctions, and I just play those versions because they sound great.
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  14. wdiv

    wdiv Forum Resident

    I had purchased that Zeppelin box set as a (at the time) more economical way of upgrading from cassettes to CDs, and to get Traveling Riverside Blues. However, it always really bugged me that the track order didn't follow the original albums. I hated how they split up Heartbreaker and Living Loving Maid -- those two songs are eternally linked. Also, I could never understand why they left Good Times Bad Times off of the original box set, considering it was their first single & one of their more familiar tracks. I eventually had to ditch the box sets & buy all of the individual CDs.
    All Down The Line, 80steen and Mullin like this.
  15. BrentB

    BrentB Urban Angler

    Midwestern US
    The ones that get me the most are the Jethro Tull with 2cd/2dvd or similar. I really have no use for music videos (DVD, BR, etc.) I would buy more of these sets if they were simply on or the other. I don't have any with LP/CD either and get people's frustration with those too.
    Big Blue and wdiv like this.
  16. Emerald Bar

    Emerald Bar Forum Resident

    The omission of the extended introduction to The Revealing Science Of God from Tales From Topographic Oceans from the Steven Wilson Yes Remixes vinyl box set, along with a few other passages from the same track, takes the shine off an otherwise superb box set. Does anyone know why the longer intro was overlooked?
  17. realmdemagic

    realmdemagic Forum Resident

    Here are my beefs:

    Genesis: Archive #2 is missing "Match of the Day" and "Me and Virgil", simply because they were disliked by one or more member, plus the sequencing makes absolutely no sense.

    Another Genesis one: 1983-1998 omits a few of the Calling All Stations b-sides. No explanation whatsoever.

    Pink Floyd: The Later Years left off the notorious "Peace Be With You" outtake, plus the La Carrera Panamericana soundtrack, because Gilmour didn't like it.

    I get it's the artist's prerogative to withhold "unworthy" material, but box sets are generally targeted at hard core collectors who want everything in one place.

    Withholding material due to preference completely defeats the purpose.
  18. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Point is, there’s no good reason why the Bo Diddley set did not have three discs. The Muddy, Wolf, and Berry boxes spanned their complete Chess output (going well into the 70s) whereas the Diddley box stopped at 1968 (and only had three songs post 1963 at that).
  19. wdiv

    wdiv Forum Resident

    I really like the UFO Chrysalis Years box set. It bugs me a little bit that they split Force It and Lights Out between two discs. Also I don't see the need to include the single edits, since the original album tracks are already there.

  20. Detroit Rock Citizen

    Detroit Rock Citizen RetroDawg Digital

    I'm not dissatisfied. I found the CDs loose about a decade ago. A little while back I bought a cassette box just to have the booklet and box. They are the only analog pieces of music I own.
  21. Toomanydogs

    Toomanydogs Forum Resident

    Terrapin Station
    The Creedence Clearwater Revival box (2001)
    Steely Dan Citizen Steely Dan (1993)

    both annoy by not devoting each album to a single CD. mixing albums on each cd ruins the listening experience when I have to program two discs to play ONE album.

    and I LOVE those bands
    Taxman and rockclassics like this.
  22. I felt the same way about Waiting On A Friend . Couldn't believe it wasn't on there.
  23. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    So, regarding the Peel Slowly set, it actually was my first copy of Loaded. It was my first copy of any Velvet Underground music, which I bought because I knew I liked what I had heard from them, and was aware of the group’s significance, enough to just go for it with a set like this in the first place. I still think it’s possibly the best CD box set ever released, at least among music that interests me enough to be looking at CD box sets.

    As such, though, the way Loaded is presented on disc 5 of this set is how I came to know it. Yes, I was always aware “Sweet Jane” was a different version, because the track listing and liner notes were very good and made that clear. But when I listen to an LP reissue of Loaded, that track seems truncated to me, because I have heard the wine and roses version more times and am expecting the bridge.

    I also always lament, when the album ends, that the Peel Slowly version of “Sad Song” wasn’t actually on the album (again, I always knew that, because of the track listing on the CD, but it was still part of my listening experience for years...), as I like it a lot more than the version on Berlin. That demo version might even be my favorite Velvet Underground track... Thank goodness I do still have the CD set!

    As for Biograph, this was also one of my first Dylan releases (not the first, I’m pretty sure, but I had it before I had any of his studio albums), and was the first time I even heard a good portion of the tracks on it. Were I to compile it myself, now, a good two and a half decades after first hearing it and having become familiar with a large portion of his catalog, sure, I’d pick different songs. I did always appreciate, though, that it wasn’t essentially just a built-out version of the Greatest Hits albums, which I had heard and could have just bought, instead, if that was what I wanted.
  24. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    The Southwest
    I understand why Geller devoted so much space to The Yardbirds because Beck's work was really quite sensational and pioneering during that period, but the problem as you pointed out is that nearly 1/3 of the entire box set is comprised of music from less than a two-year period, which essentially left only two discs to represent over two decades of music. While Geller did a pretty good job sizing up Beck's body of work within that two-disc limitation, the box set seemed a bit disjointed and not as comprehensive and balanced as it could have been.

    At the time of its release, the original Jeff Beck Group recordings never sounded better on CD, although there arguably were not enough selections from that historically important band. The second Jeff Beck Group was also underserved and underrepresented. One of the 1970 Motown recordings was earmarked for the box, but ultimately didn't make it, which was a missed opportunity. There were some compelling BBC recordings from both versions of the band that should have been considered, at the very least a live version of Definitely Maybe. The biggest omission from the second Jeff Beck Group era recordings was something from the 1972 session work with Stevie Wonder at Electric Lady Studios -- apparently one of the recordings with Wonder was earmarked for the set, but Beck allegedly disagreed with Geller as to whether the keyboards were played by Wonder or Middleton and the track in question was shelved. The BBA selections were mostly odd to say the least. Jizz Whizz was one of the highlights of the entire box, but then over 25 minutes was wasted on extended in-concert boogie/blues cover jams, when there were far more interesting possibilities.

    Blow By Blow, arguably Beck's pinnacle achievement, was only represented by two selections. And the rest of his fusion period was only scantly represented. I think something live from the BBC (e.g. She's A Woman circa 1974); a demo/early take from the Blow By Blow sessions (especially one with Carmine Appice on drums); an unreleased track or two from the live tour with Jan Hammer; and a live track or album selection from Beck's collaboration with Stanley Clarke could have gone a long way in effectively presenting Beck's fantastic fusion period (licensing would not have been too complicated because the recordings in question shared the same label). I think the Flash period could have been enhanced with one or two of the unreleased Nile Rodgers instrumental recordings, but I think Geller did a pretty good job representing the 80's (outside of including session work), although I would have liked seeing some live selections from The Secret Policeman's Ball (1982) and the ARMS tour.

    A fourth disc was planned, and was to include a sampling of Beck's session work with other artists and live material, but Epic excised it at some point during the production process, apparently due to budget constraints (licensing music from other artists was not cheap, and more complicated in the early 1990's than it is in today's climate). I do think including some of Beck's session work would have greatly enhanced the set, because it really highlights his versatility and presents some unique guitar work not associated with his own body of recorded work.

    I still think it is a relatively good box set, but I think it could have been incredible had it been expanded to a fourth disc, and had Geller been more creative with his archival inclusions.
  25. I agree with you. Both should have been included, even when I think Me and Virgil may be the worst song Genesis released from 1970 through 1987 (I like Match of the Day).
    tedg65 likes this.

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