Burning-in vs. brainwashing?

Burn in is completely true.

It occurs after a several hours listening to your new upgraded component - about 200 hours - when your mind finally tells you “yeah...this component sounds really good and I really didn’t waste a ton of money burning in my wallet. ... yeah I’m pretty sure I didn’t....of course I didn’t....”

Something like that.

 

I think it is more about your ears and brain getting used to the sound.Just as if you buy a new car the seats my feel initially uncomfortable/unfamiliar,but after a few weeks they seem fine.The seat hasn't changed but your body and brains perception and tollerance of it has.

 

Aside from speakers and some tubes, I don't experience burn-in/break-in that I feel confident enough to report on. As I see it, however, many components used in building audio gear have a "lifespan." Tubes wear out and die; something bad (as I understand it) happens to capacitors after a length of time; styli wear and suspensions fail; fuses blow; etc. Presumably one can detect some of that transition from new-to-old, or good-to-bad, or wherever the component may be on the continuum. Whether that is during the early stages of use, and whether it is uniformly for the good (i.e. "it is now burned-in"), I cannot say.

I will admit to harboring cable burn-in skepticism, but I wouldn't argue the point with those who embrace the concept, as I will freely admit the limitations of my own analytical skills vis a vis listening.

 

If you're that concerned about it just set-up your stereo in the garage and let it play for a week while you aren't listening to it.

 

Break-in of mechanical parts is undeniable, and not specific to hi-fi gear.

Burn-in of wires and capacitors, I don’t doubt but can’t prove. It’s true that the concept gets abused by the industry to over-justify customers not being immediately impressed with a product. It doesn’t seem to me like cables should really have burn-in, and I have not observed it. Then again, I have never not been immediately happy with a new cable.

However, there are just far too many people who have observed a phono stage or an amplifier change tonality after a certain period from brand new, seemingly from burn-in of capacitors, for it to be entirely an adjustment of perception. Maybe we’re meeting the burn-in halfway? Maybe we actually prefer how things sound after some degradation, and we’re calling that degradation burn-in?

But data? I do not have data. I’m sure there is a scientific journal or two out there showing some research on the topic, but I haven’t found anything readily accessible to us mere mortals. I would be very interested to see it, too.

 

You don’t think the seats in a car conform to the contours of your body? In my experience, it’s undeniable that the seat has changed.

 

Sure, this absolutely happens.

 

I tend to lean this way too.. All I really know is that the sound changes over time. It settles down.

But is the equipment changing? Or is my hearing adjusting? Chicken and the egg..

No idea.

 

And as long as it eventually sounds better than the equipment it replaced, that’s really what we’ve paid for, right? I still think it’s valuable to know whether burn-in is a physical reality, but it doesn’t actually have any effect on how I’m going to enjoy a new component.

 

Maybe a bit of both..The human brain and body are excellent at adjusting to things that initially feel unfamiliar or unpleasant.Think how tiring and stressful the first day of a job can be.After a few weeks you adjust to the enviroment and it doesn't seem anywhere near as bad.The same can happen when you initially listen to speakers (for instance) that arn't quite to your normal taste.After a few days your perception and tollerance adjusts and you get used to the sound.If people feel it is the equipement that is gradually sounding better then so be it..But in my experience it is very rare for equipment to sound any different to how it sounds after the first hour of listening.

 

Not sure I'm familiar with that. Could you elaborate or post a link?

 

Whether or not burn in is physically real or perceived --- the real question is who is propagating and keeping the burn in notion alive -- and WHY?

Seems that near every retailer, manufacturer I talk to touts the "burn in period" for their piece of gear -- sometimes it is touted as 100s of hours.

Why do we think this is??

If you really want to understand the burn in concept I think it is more important as to why it exists as opposed to whether it is "real" or not. If one can answer why retailers and manufacturers so strongly push the burn in concept, then we can really get to the heart of why it is so prevalent in the audio industry.

 

One component I truly believe that needs burn in --- teflon capacitors. I have been reading for years extreme testimonials of how teflon can have drastic changes during burn in.

Well, recently I had an upgrade done to a component with 15 teflon capacitors put in, and the changes were very noticeable. In fact when I first got it, I was so taken aback by some of the artifacts on the sound I called the manufacturer -- and then ended up calling them back four days later after about 40 hours of burn in to reverse course.

It was drastic - I am not talking subtleties here. So teflon I am convinced has a break in period......

Other components -- well, over the years my take is that some things needed a little break in but it has never been drastic.

 

Everything in my system is new, over the past 2 years or so except for a powerline conditioner and speaker cable. I'm not convinced of burn in for any one component but every piece contributes to the sound as a whole .

 

I suspect that burn-in may be overstated for some components, but I experienced rather obvious effects of burn-in one of my tube components. I have (and cherish) my Audio Research 40th Anniversary Reference Pre-amp. This is a two chassis unit with huge capacitors. When I first played it, I was disappointed because the bass was flabby and incoherent. I was told in advance (and the manual emphasized) that the pre-amp required substantial play time before it would sound right. Gradually, over the course of a few hundred hours of play, the bass tightened (and deepened) and the image became downright holographic. I have been told this was due to the burn-in of the capacitors. The audible change was not subtle and could not have been imagined. I did not experience a similar audible effect either of the two times that I've retubed the pre-amp.

 

So a follow-on question for the burn-in believers (of non-mechanical components, that is).

Why does burn-in seemingly always yield a more pleasant sound?

Isn't that evidence that you've simply acclimated to something new?

 

I agree regarding audio equipment and work environments. I just couldn’t get behind your analogy to cushioned seating. I can visually verify that my car seat, my desk chair, my spot on the couch, my side of the bed, etc. have all physically changed due to my using them. I can’t imagine this principle doesn’t also apply to machanical break-in of flexible materials like cartridge suspensions and driver surrounds and spiders. Is that why it sounds different to us? I suppose that will be debated until the end of time.

 

Rereading my statement, I'm not sure how you conclude I'm not aware of the changes within. At my age, it's hard to miss.

 

What I don’t understand is why I should want to spend a lot of money on something that needs 100s of hours before it sounds good. I would need it at least to get pretty well settled in quickly, and then continued improvement over 100s of hours beyond that is acceptable. But if the pitch is “buy this, use it for like six months, then it will be what you paid for” I am likely to look for a product that takes less time to sound worth the cost.

 

I recently got the CTH amp and HD-6xx from Massdrop. The first day the phones sounded very closed in, and they opened up instantaneously after maybe 3 hours of use (don’t ask me how this happened on both sides at once).

After that, they usually sounded boxy for maybe the first hour of use. I was kind of disappointed, although I could tell they were rendering some sounds more accurately than other phones/amps. This would seem to clear up after a while. I let them play hooked to a receiver for a few days. The first-hour boxiness still continued for some time.

Don’t know if the issue was the phones or amp, but things took a couple of months to settle. Now the sound is wide open and enormous from the getgo, even if the amp is started cold. No obvious changes during listening sessions.


(not my photo)

 

I think it's really tough to compare a component precisely over time, in large part because unless one's ears are in the same exact spot, the sound will appear different. I know if I move even a few inches away from the 'sweet spot' on my main rig the sound seems to change.

 

The great Yogi Berra quote: "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

 

You are answering your own question ---- but at the heart of the matter for the most part IMHO. (except for Teflon which DOES need burn in!!! I swear!)

 

Maybe. Or it’s evidence that brand new capacitors invariably do not sound as good as when they burn in.

 

Upgraded caps in my first tube amp (Dynaco SCA-35) in the late 90s. Definitely 'sharp' or something, even my completely non-audiophile wife could hear it (she commented without my prompting). This was from Orange Drops (the first upgrade) to better boutique caps (~$8/cap). After a few days things settled down and sounded better (and she verified it). So there.