Burning-in vs. brainwashing?

Well you suggested burn in should substitute change. Meaning it is what changes.

 

Its easy to figure out if they actually heard it or not. I dont have to hear it myself.

 

True, Warren, but the other side of the same coin is "your gear isn't resolving enough for you to be able to tell" or "you must be deaf not to hear the difference". Being a bit more cordial in these discussions would be welcome. Sadly it may never happen as many of these threads are designed to inspire just that type of argument.

I try not to doubt someone perceived a difference. It's silly to think the person is deluded or lying. Same thing for someone who does not hear a difference. Perception is a funny thing. One delightful spring day my then girlfriend and I were laying on the grass in a park looking up at the sky. She swore one cloud looked the the profile of Elvis. I sure didn't see it but I didn't doubt her sincerity. Or perhaps I just wanted to make sure I got some that night ;-).

 

In the year 4949 people will be debating the merits of silver vs copper direct-music-injection brain probes.

 

My belief is that there won´t be any people then.

 

I’ve decided that this topic doesn’t really matter all that much to me personally. My mom takes certain health supplements that she swears by. Whether or not it is a placebo effect makes little difference to me, she still feels better. I rarely doubt the power of the mind and that applies here as well.

The same goes for audio gear. As long as people are enjoying it more, be it due to actual burn-in or otherwise, then good for them. The point is that they are enjoying listening to music more than before. That is what counts as far as I’m concerned. The “why” just isn’t as big of a deal to me.

 

Feelings, nothing more than feelings of burn-in,
Trying to forget my feelings about capacitors...
Teardrops rolling down on my face as the resistors accommodate...
P.S. as I posted elsewhere from a massive test I did, the change in suspension of a speaker was not too significant as far as the response. If you're talking years, maybe that's another story. So my belief is speaker "burn-in" is largely the effect of your amazingly adaptable brain getting used to the sound of the new component. Note this does not disagree with those who feel there is a burn-in effect, just about the cause.

 

Yes, but we'll be arguing about it with aliens. And I think you meant "In The Year 2525"...

 

I would add that everything in the universe cannot be measured or fully understood, yet.

 

You just have to keep in mind that, people that have extraordinary hearing and people that THINK they have extraordinary hearing present as exactly the same.

They're all unverified claims, until proven.

It really shouldn't bother you, I doubt the guy with a Rolex gives two whatevers what you or I think of it (or him).

If he does, well, that says more about him than either of us.

 

I don’t think it’s either/or. I’ve had some components whose sound I didn’t like at first, the sound changed as the component broke in, and I still didn’t like the sound after. Other components started out displeasing, but improved over time as the sound changed. In the former case my brain could not “break in” to the change; in the latter it did.

John K

 

I am becoming more like this statement. It takes too much effort to try and convince someone to change their mind.

I heard one audio designer mention that the speaker needs break-in with any new component. It said that the speakers can change in subtle way with and differences in the signal.

I am of the belief that most components need burn in time and burn in needs a signal passing through said component.

 

We've all seen posts on this forum about someone putting a piece of retired or "second system" gear back in their primary system for varying reasons, and being surprised about how good that component sounds. How does that fit into this discussion?

My guess is that the person had bought a piece of equipment that they really didn't like as much as the original, but got used to it over time, the 'break-in period'.

 

One thing that I will comment on.

If anyone is buying older vintage speakers, which may not have been used for some years. I do encourage running them for a few days to get them loosened back up and sounding the way that they should.

 

I have personally experienced a new pair of speakers changing over the first 50-100 hours of use. It is not my imagination, and this is how I know: I have a problem with my left ear that causes music to distort at volumes over 75db when certain frequencies (upper midrange/low treble) are "overdone" on certain recordings. This has been happening for over 25 years. I've tried various loudspeakers and integrated amps with only minor relief.

I purchased a new pair of KEF LS50 a few months ago and unfortunately (and unsurprisingly) they had the same effect. However, after listening to them for 2-3 hours per day over the course of a month+ I noticed the distortion was gone on recordings I've listened to dozens (hundreds?) of times. I started turning up the volume and the distortion was gone!! I thought my ear itself was magically healed, so I tried my old system (currently hooked up for computer sound) and it still has the distortion effect. So....something changed with the KEFs that I attribute to "burn" or "break-in".

 

As much as the next man, I guess.

 

burning is real

just let it play for 80 hours and get over it

 

Make fun of "burn-in" all you want, in your ignorance. People who can hear and who can remember what they heard are uniformly aware that new cables, new electronics and new speakers all change sound during the first few hundred hours of use. I dont know why and I dont care why; I only know that I hear it, and that it is not my "imagination".

If you think your that technical explanations of why this is impossible supersedes human observation (using sense of hearing rather than test equipment) then you simply don't trust human senses as much as human presumption.

But, as I remember, Einstein's Theory of Relativity was the first significant discovery in the history of mankind that started with logic and only later was confirmed physically to the point of universal acceptance. ALL other discoveries and physical theories (and laws) started with human observation BEFORE they were ever attempted to be proven by logical explanation.

 

same with cable discussion, burn in discussion always seem to bring the worst out of otherwise great dudes.

cant we all just agree to disagree?

Personally, i would never make a final judgement on a piece of gear i have until I made sure its been played for 100 hours. takes 4 days, then im certain of my choice. maybe its all in my head, and i really dont mind waiting 4 days for something that is in the worst case scenario not real.

 

Of course "the guy with a Rolex" cares what you or I think of it. One of the major reasons to wear a Rolex IS to affect what people think of it (or him).

By the way, I have a Rolex, given to me as a gift, and never wear it. I do think it is beautiful (with diamonds at each hour position), but I cannot think of any reason to actually WEAR it. My friends say it raises the level of service provided by store and restaurant employees. Others say it is simply ostentatious.

 

These sorts of threads are crazy. The one thing I do know absolutely - with 100% certainty - is that chocolate chip mint ice cream tastes better to me than it does to anyone else in the world.

 

Speaking about the audio non-mechanical components, any new habit/perception need a certain "burn-in" period from strange-to-perfect. The habit is the second nature.

About the cables burn-in period recommended by sellers, in the past, the snake-oil vendors (eg. Andy Tucker and Jeff Peters) were asking patience to their clients to run out of the town with the money grabbed.