Buying a COMPLETE Tube Amp System for Living Room

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by XUR, Jun 26, 2019.

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  1. Ezd

    Ezd Forum Resident

    Or you did not leave the cables in the freezer long enough...
    Had them in the freezer to long...
    Did not have the freezer set cold enough...
    Had the freezer set to cold...
    Turn the speaker cables end-to-end, the electrons have become conditioned to traveling in the opposite direction...

    Wait, perhaps the problem is not the cables, you should have frozen the electrical outlet receptacle, not the cables... or was it the power cord that was supposed to go in the freezer?
     
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  2. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    I got the area code wrong. It is 562-897-2227
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
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  3. james

    james Summon The Queen

    Location:
    Annapolis
    I have a run of the Duelands and they’re sitting in a box, just because they’re so damn messy looking. Did you find a solution to that?
     
  4. RH67

    RH67 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Simi Valley Ca.
    LOL! I have them twisted together and basically i only see about a foot of wire on each side, they also blend in with my floors, unlike my AN 27 silver cables. Also no worse them some cable that looks like a snake attacking the back of my speakers.
     
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  5. daniel peterson

    daniel peterson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles

    This post clearly represents one of the main questions in the realm of Hi-Fi. In my opinion this discussion comes down to a few questions 1) to what extent can the sound be quantified 2) whether we can measure all what we can hear 3) if 2 devices measure the same do they produce identical results. One end of this debate's spectrum is represented by Paul McGowan and the other by his opponent Ethan Winer. Both of them quite famous and renowned in the Hi-Fi community. The former believes that our brain is the ultimate measuring tool and some aspects of the audiophile experience are not measurable, whereas the latter supports the claim that every aspect of the sound can be quantified and measured. I'd like to think that if the cables or be it amps/preamps measure the same then the sound quality should not make any difference at all. Given my experience, however, I must say that having heard 2 devices with very similar specs the difference was noticeable.
     
  6. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I don't pay any attention to measurements, I want something to sound good and that is the end of my concern.

    There are still questions that remain unanswered. Most importantly, if there are audible differences, can we measure what exactly they are?

    This brings me back to my first question. What is deficient about ordinary copper wire? I think nothing.

    The electricity coming out of the amp is representative of its sound. Does ordinary copper wire compromise it in any way?

    If so, then in exactly what specific way (noting that we are using proper gauge speaker wire)?

    If we take ten high end (expensive) audio cables and compare them, will they all sound the same or different?

    Sure different audio cables can sound different. It is the intention of their manufacturer's that they sound "different".

    So, in the example above, if they all ten sound different, then each is altering the sound in some predetermined way.

    Surely this can be rationally explained?

    If the cables are altering the sound and I think my ordinary copper wire sounds excellent, then I'm not sure that I want to have the cables make alterations to the sound that my amplifier is creating.

    Wires are completely passive devices, they should not change anything, unless there is a specific change that is desired.

    Statement like "these are good cables" don't make any real sense. An alteration of sound that is going to work with a certain combination of equipment is not going to be ideal with another piece of audio gear.

    No high end audio cable is going to be ideal with all or even most equipment, being all of the differences between various audio gear.

    You can get all the changes you desire by changing out different tubes and by adjusting different voltages that effect those tubes.

    You can't do that with a piece of passive wire.
     
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  7. XUR

    XUR Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Bumping this back up and a quick update from my side!

    I ended up purchasing a set of AN/E HE LX Hemp speakers from our very own Warren Jarrett. After going back and forth between the Slate SPE speakers in the Canadian Audio Mart, I opted for the LXs in Wenge from Warren and he was very helpful through the process. I wasn't sold on the Slate finish, and to be honest, I'm not too sure about the Wenge finish either because it looks a bit dull in pictures. Hopefully I'll warm up to it more in person and I'm hedging that the muted, dark brown look of Wenge will be easier to live with in the long run versus more "loud" veneers that I was initially attracted to (like Poplar Burl).

    Anyway, can't wait to get these Audio Notes in my hands!

    I also purchased the Canare Bi-Wire speaker cables from BJC and their stereo RCAs.

    The bad news: Decware's lead time right now is past 16 weeks so it's going to be a while before I can get the ZP3 Phono Stage in my hands and actually use the system... I wasn't in a rush, but now that I have everything else, I almost wonder if I should cancel the order and try a different Phono Stage?

    Lastly, what do people do for the power plugs? Is a generic power strip suitable enough?
     
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  8. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    We had a post in another thread where these was a $500 Musical Fidelity SS phone stage on sale or clearance for $200.

    They make a nice phono stage, I had one myself. Get one form Musical Fidelity to use as a spare and keep the Decware on order.
     
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  9. XUR

    XUR Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Great idea! I just scooped up the Musical Fidelity LX2-LPS phono stage on Amazon for $200. Used some of my Amazon points as well to bring it even lower... nice interim solution and will let me listen to this system while the ZP3 is built!!
     
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  10. RH67

    RH67 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Simi Valley Ca.
    The speakers that you bought are really great and it`s my opinion that they sound best with AN silver speaker cable, at some point i would make this investment and it does not have to be the uber expensive silver cable. I cannot stress how good AN silver speaker cable is, in my main system i have been using it for years, the better the speaker the more it will benefit from the cable.
     
  11. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident

    Strongly second that based on my experience. I think this poster also mentioned early on that you will hamstring your system when listening to vinyl if you don’t get a nice phono pre. Yes indeed! I purchased a Manley and they pop up used for around $1700. Don’t start with a cheapie...you will only end up upgrading it later like I did. Something like the Manley will allow you to change cartridges later without regard to preamp cartridge limitations! And it’s a tube pre. This whole phono preamp business is the one single thing I wish I had known more about 30 years ago! Strat-Mangler is one of the guys here that really helped me, so give his suggestions serious weight...with no disrespect given to all the others that also have very valid opinions as well. I can only say his suggestions helped me a lot, and I’m thrilled with my set up and doubt I will ever feel the need to upgrade. I have been chasing my tail since near birth trying to get what I think is the “perfect” sound (which is objective and different for each person, which is why generally no one is wrong, and why so many suggest listening to all your considerations before buying).

    Let me tell you one more important thing I have learned, which confirms what some others have wisely told you: the real trick is matching everything so that ALL the elements are well matched and work together (not fighting each other) to the very best of you ability. I got to where I could really tell the difference and it’s no fun when you are on the wrong side of that! Unfortunately, that does practically mean you have to hear everything together...and also unfortunate that it’s impractical as the odds are, no dealer will have everything you want. And buying used is absolutely the smart play, but then it’s even more difficult. Be prepared to, perhaps, sell off a piece or two as you look for that magic synergistic system! Much of the advice you are getting here will improve your odds, but don’t be closed to trying new things if in the end you have not met what you had hoped to hear. It took me many, many years before I got there (I’m 58 and just got “there” two years ago) but you will arrive! That is another reason to buy demos and used, as you have been wisely doing...you will take much smaller financial hits if you need to get something different!

    Good luck...it’s a lot of fun and the people here are very generous with their advice, and with some help you will no doubt need later once it’s all put together.
     
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  12. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    You will be pleasantly surprised. Having the Decware ZP3 on the Vinyl Nirvana, Thorens TD-160 Super with the Bronze and Black cartridge, the Musical Fidelity X-LPS was on the Rega RP6 with the upgraded subplater, white belt and the Exact cartridge.

    So I was able to do a good head to head comparison and I have to say, the the X-LPS is a great sounding SS phono preamp.

    I feel that you will be pleasantly surprised at the performance. :)
     
  13. XUR

    XUR Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I was able to listen to music for the first time today, exactly 2 months after I started this thread, with my newly arrived AN/E HE Hemp speakers. Surprised it was only 2 months, it has certainly felt longer than that. I plugged everything in, biased my tubes to "70" on the 518IA, plugged the positive speaker wires to the "8 Ohm" plugs at the back of the 518IA since the AN/E's look to be 6 Ohm. The other option is 4 Ohm at the back of the amp.

    Anyway, when I turned everything on and played a brand new vinyl... I admittedly wasn't blown away by the sound. It just sounded "good", but nothing at the level of what has been invested should sound like... The cleanliness of the sound coming out of the speakers is below par, there's a noticeable amount of constant scratchiness/static noise that's muddying the clarity. It's almost as if I'm playing a dirty vinyl, but not to that severe of an extent.

    Here's a picture of the crude staging I did to just get everything plugged in and turned on.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Well there are some issues I am sure you are aware of - first you need Audio Note E stands - They are specifically designed to get the tweeter at the correct height. They are absolutely not designed to sit on the floor. Nor should the turntable - the amp can sit on the floor though.
     
  15. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    Speaker break-in ahead :) I don't know about the AN/E HE Hemp but my E model took several hundred hours of break-in before things started to fall into place.
     
  16. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    I think you will. I have seen the slate finish live at an audio show, it also didn't do anything for me.
     
  17. beowulf

    beowulf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chula Vista, CA
    I'm admittedly not a fan of AN's speakers at all, but your description of the sound quality you're getting doesn't sound like speaker break-in to me. It seems more like something's amiss with your vinyl setup or one or more tubes may be bad.
     
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  18. Kyhl

    Kyhl On break

    Location:
    Savage
    For clarification, where the speakers connected to the amp when the amp was powered up and biased?
     
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  19. spartree

    spartree Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    If that noise is present even when the needle isn’t touching the record it could easily be bad tubes. If you power up the amp without turning on the phono preamp do you still get static noises?

    Also, those speakers really need to be on stands. Consult the owners manual for placement suggestions, but a general starting point (specifically for Audio Note speakers) will be fairly tight in the corners with a good amount of toe-in.

    AN-E manual:
    https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/3e7c3b_4dd255f69c274305bbaa254be1689caa.pdf
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
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  20. XUR

    XUR Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Yes, they were

    I need to test it again but I definitely recall hearing the static noises faintly coming out of the speakers with nothing playing, just the amp on. Can't recall if I had the phono stage on as well at the time. But to clarify, the static noise coming from the speakers is very faint (need to get up close to them to hear), I thought this is normal?

    If it's a tube, what's the best way to determine which one is bad?
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  21. spartree

    spartree Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    A little hissing is normally fine, but the way you described it sounded like it was really interfering with the sound. Maybe I misread. Anyway if you have to get close to the speaker to hear it, then I’d say it’s not really a problem. Do you know how many hours the previous owner put on the tubes?

    I do think you should get the speaker position/height dialled in a little more and have another listen. @Warren Jarrett might be able to offer some more detailed guidance. Give it some time. The speakers might also need to break in a bit, but I’m with beowulf: what you’ve described doesn’t sound like a speaker break-in issue.

    This probably goes without saying, but double check all your connections. Make sure the + and - are where they should be. Even the best of use have messed that up on one or more occasions, depending on the whisky.

    I suppose another suggestion would be to try another record if you have one. A lot of new records being made these days have a huge amount of surface noise and often sound like crap right out of the plastic even compared to the digital version. Unfortunately with the resurgence in vinyl popularity we are also seeing a lack of QA on a lot of it. You can directly test this if you also have that album in digital format and are willing to plug a different source into your amp.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  22. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    I don't know. "It just sounded "good", but nothing at the level of what has been invested should sound like..." sounds to me like new speakers.

    But you're right, this doesn't: "there's a noticeable amount of constant scratchiness/static noise that's muddying the clarity. It's almost as if I'm playing a dirty vinyl, but not to that severe of an extent."
     
  23. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    I would say this is normal.
     
  24. XUR

    XUR Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco
    To clarify, the speakers are New to me, but they're actually Demos I bought from Warren and have a good amount of hours in them already from a break-in perspective.

    I also have the speakers Bi-Wired (4 plugs at the speaker side and 2 at the amp side) with the Canare cable from BJC.
     
  25. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    And they have not been sitting idle for a while? I think AN states in their manual that after just a month or so, their speakers need some re-breaking in, although fewer hours than when they are new.
     
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