Buying a COMPLETE Tube Amp System for Living Room

There is no reason whatsoever that you need to use a certain manufacturer's preamp with a Line Magnetic SET integrated/power amp.

I have one preamp, which is a division of Cary Audio, and I use it with whatever power amp/integrated.receiver that I happen to be using at the time.

Zu speakers are designed to be used with a wide range of amplifier power. I certainly would not use them with low powered SET's, unless you want to throw dynamics out the window. Zu states that their amps are designed to be used with SS amps as well as tube amps. I don't happen to agree with this, having done so myself.

But most SS amps have more power than even the average class A/B tube amps has. Zu's will sound nice and perform well with any typical A/B amp or SET amp in the 20-40 Watt range. You can also drive them with more powerful A/B amps with no problems.

Your knocking Polk here, across the board and without good reason for doing so. It is not exactly a state secret that companies like Polk, Boston Acoustics or Klipsch make mass market speakers. It should also be a secret that they have higher lines that have more selective markets.

Because these companies are volume oriented, it gives them economics of scale that small companies cannot hope to compete with.

All of these companies have or had speakers in different price ranges that have cost to performance ratios that are practically unmatched by any other companies on the planet. Noting that there are other companies who specialize in expensive "audiophile" speakers.

This is totally absurd! To make a blanket statements about companies that often sell their products at 50% off are crap or that they are not worth the full 100% retail price in the first place.

To mention Polk in particular, lets look at their RTi line or their LSiM line. Both product lines feature speakers that are very competitive in the market at their normal retail prices. For example the RTIA9 at $1,500/pr. or the LSiM707 at $4k/pr. Both of which I own and both of which I feel are very competitive at their respective retail pricing.

Both of these speakers I have bought at 50% off their retail pricing, which is beyond being stupid cheap, considering the quality of either of these products.

When people pass up these deals, try to find something in their sale price price range that can even come close to competing with them, performance wise.

 

I'll pretend that I did not read that you just made this statement.

 

Thank you, I did reach out to that seller as well but I preferred the one listed here on the forum as it doesn't have a damaged top cover.

In light of this 50% sale... say I grab a 518IA, should I just go ahead and try a Polk LSiM707 at 50% off while I still can?

 

Nope. Get this. Much much better than the Polk. These speakers are Stereophile Class A. Polk isn't even in the same conversation.

Goldenear Triton One Speakers, Excellent Condition

 

And also never mind on the Polk LSiM707, I missed the part on how they're not that efficient and better paired with a SS amp anyway

 

because of the built-in active woofers, these are a good choice for a lower / mid powered tube amplifier if you like the sound.
every time i have listened to them they sound more like cool speakers with a nice "flavor" and less like live music.
guy- you've owned them for a while- would you say they have opened up and sound more "live"?

 

Absolutely. I've heard other brands in the same price range and nothing can touch the Triton One. Get a good set of cables and you'll be stunned

 

Fair. But that 518 is dirt cheap and the damage is something you'll never see.

 

Funny thing about my Triton 1.R's is that I actually enjoy them probably a little more with my little Cayin A50T at 38W than with my Ref75SE's at 75. I've also conected them to the SS ARC D240 at 100W and still preferred the smaller amp.

To be honest, the better amps brought out more detail and really tightened up the bass, but the small amp seemed to really make them shine, probably not technically as good, just more enjoyable overall. I guess I could say it's more of a "vintage" presentation.

 

That amp is beautiful w out the cover and ugly with it. I would never use the cover unless kids were around.

 

I have used Tekton Double Impact speakers with both the LM 518ia and LM 508ia with stellar results, the DI`s cost 3k but a cheaper alternative would be the Perfect SET. The Perfect SET 15

 

I really want a set of One.r. Someday!

 

Don't discount the LSiM707's brand new including shipping for $2k/pr., just because you can't use them effectively with an expensive tube amplifier.

I can't comment on the Triton's because I have not heard tham, but $3,195 for used, almost four year old $5,000/new speakers is not a good deal. Then you are going to be hit with the PP fees and the shipping, which will bring your total outlay close to the $3,500-$3,600 price range.

This is close to twice the sale price of the LSiM707's. Compare apples to apples.

And, just to set the record straight, the LSiM707's are not that that inefficient with 88-dB. sensitivity. Most average tower speakers are about 90-dB. in sensitivity.

The Triton's have built in subs, which allow the main speakers to be more sensitive. But almost any large tower is going to require power to pressurize a large room properly. Bass accounts for roughly 2/3 of the power that the speaker needs.

Even my A7's which are rated at 103-dB. before the HF attenuation that I have applied, I always use with a sub. The same thing goes with the LSiM707's, which have a 1,800-Watt Crown Class "D" amplifier driving a 102-dB. efficient horn loaded commercial sub, that can sustain a SPL of 133-dB. of continuous program material.

If you are going to have large tower speakers, you are going to need to feed tham a sufficient amount of power to pressurize a large room.

As to the 518iA with slight damage, I would be willing to overlook this kind of slight damage, for $1,985 price that it being offered for. This amp is a $4,500+ price amp and these are not easy to come by.

If you want to do the SET thing, I do encourage you to reconsider this amp and this deal.

 

The 518ia is one of the best integrated amps that i have owned and at it`s price new not much if anything comes close. So used for under 2k is quite a deal.

 

I'm just going to reply to this and I'm out as I don't want to ruin the OP's thread ...

McIntosh builds most of the parts that go into their amps as well including their own epoxy circuit boards, twisting and potting their own hand made transformers, most parts for their chassis, etc. Again let's bring attention to AN doing this, but no cred to Mac huh? It is not unique to only AN, nor were they the first to even do it, nor are they the only ones doing it at this time.

I don't choose Mac amps for this reason also as I like SET and SEP amp designs as well and rarely ever recommend their newer amps unless someone needs more power, however their vintage ones still have some magic even though they aren't SET. That said I agree that the MC275 is pretty decent as does our host Steve H. who has reviewed it positively.

Again this argument is bogus. AN was built upon the back of the resurgence of tube amplification and 2 channel stereo. By the time AN came out with their first products ~ tube amplification was emerging ... especially in Japan. Consequently, since AN didn't exist nearly have a century prior, they never had go through 30 years of decline of tubes over transistors, nor the decline of 2 channel stereo over home theater, nor had to resist the temptation of sending the manufacturing process over to China for cheap/slave labor, etc., etc. So we're talking of a company that had been around close to half a century dealing with the ups and downs, different trends happening within the audio industry, etc. ~ while still trying to stay in business and relevant during that time period.

So Mac existed 40+ years prior to this and you try to dog them for not sticking to tubes? They don't have the "sonic allegiance" (sic) that AN has? That is pure B.S.! 40+ years before Audio Note even nicked the name from Audio Note Kondo ~ Mac had a business to operate, family, employees and mouths to feed and through all the ups and downs and still emerged stronger than ever at this point just ticking along making good quality products (mostly in the USA, with their own parts and in their own factory).

Speakers are all over the place as far as sensitivity, specifications and ratings go. So people need choices that SET amplification can't provide and you try to dog them for that? Better call Tim De Paravicini and Frank Alstine (Audio by Van Alstine) and let them no they have no credibility because the give people choices!

Could you imagine where McIntosh would be right now as a company who didn't roll with the punches since 1949? According to your business model Sony should have rolled up shop when they switched from CRT TV's to LED's because they didn't stay true to their "visual allegiance" and now they have no cred as an electronics company!

My argument wasn't that their aren't other businesses that haven't been continually operated for as long as McIntosh ... I mean Weihenstephan brewery in Bavaria can trace its history back to 1040 AD.! My argument is that ~ it is unique in the "audio industry" ~ for such a business to exist like McIntosh, who still make products in the USA, in the same factory and even with employees that have been there almost from the start. There is only a handful of "audio companies" that can claim this. So your skewed analogy doesn't apply.

 

The economies of scales argument is one that is strong on paper and rarely correlates with reality - I had the king of the economies of scales speaker in the KEF LS-50. My 2/3 the price made by hand in small quantities AX Two sounds better which is why the KEF was moved out and the AX Two stayed. And on top of that I could have gotten significantly more for my AX Two than the KEF as a secondhand speaker! The larger companies have far greater overheads and have huge marketing platforms that need to be paid for and which is attached to the speakers.

I am not a fan of slim towers with lots of drivers and that includes all of the Polk speakers including LSiM models I have heard since the 1990s. Then again I haven't like similar speaker designs from PSB, B&W, Paradigm, Energy, Totem, or Klipsch though the latter is friendlier to low powered tubes. The LSiM may be a better value than a B&W 603 floorstander but for me that's not saying much. It's hard to go back once you've heard better.

If I did go to these multi-driver speakers I would opt for a Cerwin Vega XLS 215 over the LSiM because I would get much bigger more powerful sound (and bass) that would do justice to Stadium rock and are fairly easy to drive which lowers the amount of money I need for amplifiers (And I could use better sounding amplifiers - which isn't SS or high power tubes).

Or I would go for the Audio Note AZ Three at ~$2k which provides a far more cohesive sound than ANY of these towers and has bass into the 20hz range bettering most of them and has 95dB sensitivity needing only 7 watts and is hand built in Europe not China. These would be my picks in the $2k and under range for floorstanders.

And before you scoff at Cerwin Vega - they changed ownership and designs

The wider baffle speakers IMO sound better than narrow baffle speakers/ The CLS 215 lists at $750 each.






Review and measurements SoundStage! Equipment Review - Cerwin-Vega CLS-215 Loudpeakers (12/2007)

 

The LSiM's are outstanding and very versatile speaker's. There is nothing that I can say bad about them. You are certainly not going to find anying for a grand each that is going to best them. They need to be run with a high current SS amp, which is how I an running them.

I have used them with many different types of music and the are smooth and the multiple drivers are well coordinated.

Actually I had a pair of Cerwin Vega speakers before I had any other speaker in the office.

The pool guy had a roommate who moved out and left them at his place. He had bought other speakers and had no use for them. He gave me a good price and I bought them. They are modern ones, not the older ones.

I used to think that CV's could take a lot of power and put out some mean bass, but that was all that they were good for. But, I figured that over thirty years had passed since I had this opinion of them and I figured, that the overall sound quality would be better by now.

NOPE!

Still sounded the same as I remembered then sounding. I moved them to a room upstairs and used them as nightstands.

The bass was amazing and they could take a lot of power and you could hear the tweeter but the midrange and upper bass was almost non existent.

The cabinet's were built like brick "bathrooms". I thought, that someday, if I had the time, I would put in a nice horn midrange and new crossover's and they might turn out to be a very decently balanced speaker.

This idea was formed because, you don't find many wide speaker cabinet's now days. These had 12" woofer's I think, like in your photo. I don't know which model they were. I bought them for $300 for the pair.

 

There are a few manufacturers who do this but they do not do it to the sheer number of products that Audio Note does it. Line magnetic makes their own chassis and their own transformers but they have a limited number of products and they are not designing and building their won caps resistors and other parts internally - and neither does McIntosh - Audio note makes the caps, the resistors, their own solder, their own boards, the case, the volume pots and knobs, and their own RCA connectors. They don't buy a turntable from Clearaudo - Audio Note hand builds their own turntables, arms and Cartridges and designed the motors.

And the point is a missed - the results show up in the listening room - Soundhounds had full McIntosh systems that I auditioned against full AN systems. The results are clear when the play button is pushed. And it's NOT close. AN blew it away for half the price.

It isn't the same company anymore - While at the dealer listening to McIntosh - the owner Terry Crabbe who has sold McIntosh for forever noted that "they're pretty good for a soulless corporation." Whatever they were I don't feel they are now. Money is spent on little green lights light up the tubes. It's silly and looks cheap.

The Sugden A21a came out in 1968 and was a 10 watt per channel Single Ended amplifier and it still sells to this day 50+ years later due to a belief in their sound at sold when only LE speakers were in fashion. Less power in fact than most McIntosh tube amps (maybe all of them as I don't follow them as closely). Audio Note Japan began in 1970s. There was no big tube movement in the 1980s. Audio Innovations which is what Peter owned and operated then was not exactly a hose hold name. And tubes are not the same as SETs. AN UK was what largely started the SET movement in the USA and certainly the upper end of that market.

Yes McIntosh has to roll with the punches to stay in business but that's because a large chunk of their business was NOT audiophiles and I am sorry if you can't accept the fact that people don't buy McIntosh because of the name plate and because it looks cool - if McIntosh didn't think looks sold their products they would not be putting green lights in to light up tubes or meters on their turntables. This is just absurd. This actually looks desperate more than rolling with the punches.



Sugden kept their products and yes they rolled with the punches offering a Sugden A48 at 70 watts but that was more about offering a more affordable option - they KEPT their A21a because that was their best sounding performer. McIntosh didn't. Granted I accept what you're saying in the sense that because McIntosh was so big they had to change - Sugden and other small outfits don't need to change because they didn't exactly have large work forces to protect.

Well I wouldn't buy a product from either one of them.

Well I will ultimately say that you made me look more closely at McIntosh and I am impressed by their manufacturing and the fact they do, unlike most, make the critical parts in house and McIntosh has always been known to be quite reliable. The problem is when I went to their site almost everything is SS and very little is true tube (hybrids don't count). So in this thread I am not sure whichtube set-up can be recommended that will work for the OP.

 

Appreciate all of the interesting discussion... I am at least gaining some good insight from it all as a newcomer.

I have gotten in touch with the seller of the Line Magnetic 518IA from the US Audio Mart listing (thanks again for sharing) and we struck a deal. I paid him the asking price but he included a few additional tubes and threw in the shipping. He recommended I check out the Psvane 845 tubes to upgrade but I'll have to hold off on those as I need to allocate the remainder of my budget to the next 3 pieces:

- High efficiency tower speakers
- Pre Amp
- Cables

I do see a used McIntosh C22 III tube preamp on US Audio Mart right now as well, but it's out of my budget. Any further recommendations on a pre amp to pair with the 518IA would be appreciated.

The seller of the 518IA also recommended Auditorium 23 cables.

I think the hardest part now, since I took things in reverse and committed to the amp before the speakers, is locking down a solid set of speakers... still really hard to decide based on the filtered down list I have now: Omen Definitions, Golden Ear Tritons, Omega Juniors, Devore Orangutang, maybe a Klipsche?

Thanks again all... HALF WAY THERE!!!

I also scooped up a collection of 600 LPs off Craigslist today from a family who amassed it over the decades. This will definitely help beef up my inventory. I paid $150, is that pretty good for a random assortment of used LPs (has everything from classical to Neil Diamond stuff, to as late as the 80s)?

 

You do not need a preamp with the 518ia. As i mentioned before check out Tekton speakers.

 

+1 there's no need for a preamp, just enjoy your integrated for a while and focus on a good set of speakers.

 

Did you get a phono stage already? I may have missed it amongst all the discussion. Good job with the Line Magnetic.

Omega and DeVore (I’ve often seen DeVore paired with Line Magnetic) make some nice speakers, but they do sound very different from one another so you have to go hear them. And I still really think a pair of Audio Note AN-E or AN-J should be on the audition list, although it seems like you’ve completely ruled out that company.

 

I did not get a phono stage yet. I know a pre amp isn’t necessary immediately but if I get a dedicated phono stage and not a pre amp, wouldn’t it be a waste down the line once I do add in a pre amp?

I feel like I should dig a little deeper and try and get a pre amp, unless the only good ones to pair with the 518ia are exorbitantly priced. Not sure if something like the Decware ZP3 is a good match?

 

Preamps don't automatically feature a phono preamp and when they do, they're rarely as good as a dedicated phono preamp.

Buying a phono preamp is necessary and will sound terrific if you get a good one. Buying a preamp is a waste of money at this stage!

 

I too am baffled at the insistence on adding a preamp. The 518A has that function built in, and further it is designed as such, so you don't have to worry about impedance matching and other issues. What do you expect to get from it that you don't get from the integrated? A preamp is a switcher with a volume control (OK, it's a bit more than that) but the 518A already has that function covered. The only reason I see that the amp has a Preamp input is for a unity gain input that can be used for HT applications. They are just calling it a Pre In instead of a HT or processor in.

Get a nice phono stage that fits your budget and don't worry about a preamp.