There is no way there would be enough room for all of those ideas. PLUS the input of outside musicians and experiences, etc. would not be there to help create those albums. It would likely be a hodge-podge of styles not meshing or just the same formulaic Byrds sound dragging into the 70s with no outside input or room to grow. Not to be a buzzkill...
Well, this interview with Hal Blaine certainly muddies the water or... confirms your point . MD: Michael Clark? Hal: Yeah, he was the only guy who was a little pissed Eventually Terry Melcher, the producer, let him make the records. Although we had already done “Mr. Tambourine Man,” and they were a big group. I’ve got underground tapes of me making all those Byrds records, with Terry talking to me saying “give me this, give me that.” Maybe Mike didn’t know it, maybe he did, but when I hear some of The Byrds records, I would have never played them the way I hear them. So those have to be the ones that he did play on. Anyway, he’s the only drummer I know of who showed animosity, unless it was someone behind my back and I didn’t know it. An Interview with Hal Blaine | Modern Drummer Magazine
Yes, that's what I meant...the reason it would've been spliced in with the early Fifth Dimension period recordings is cos it must have been under consideration as an unfinished leftover from the Turn...sessions.
Thought I'd share what I've managed to find on McGuinn's 1980's era of mystery...between the McGuinn-Hillman album in 1980 and his comeback album Back From Rio in 1991. Have also included some videos from this period as well as a summary of other studio recorded Roger songs. Would love you Byrd Nyrds to fill in any gaps for me! So here is a list of songs from this period: 1981 Woman - see 1984 Peaceseekers youtube link at 16.20 mark America For Me - found a live version and interview here https://music.amazon.co.uk/albums/B07TSC6RHY - see 1985 for video version Severe Mercy - mentioned in Timeless Flyght but cannot find any recording of this Wedding Song - mentioned in Timeless Flyght but cannot find any recording of this 1982 Take Good Care - mentioned in Timeless Flyght but cannot find any recording of this Wings of Love - mentioned in Timeless Flyght but cannot find any recording of this Sweet Memories - recorded for Roger's 2018 Sweet Memories album (see link later) Light Up The Darkness - recorded for Roger's 2018 Sweet Memories album (see link later) - see 1986 for video version 1983 5.18 - recorded for Roger's 2018 Sweet Memories album (see link later) 1984 The Tears - recorded for Roger's 2018 Sweet Memories album (see link later) The Price - mentioned in Timeless Flyght but cannot find any recording of this Nobody Knows You When You're Down and Out (cover) Beacon Theater,NYC,NY 3/23/1984. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbW6CddDabk Roger McGuinn and The Peaceseekers concert London 24/07/84 (featuring Gene Parsons and Skip Battin!) Features four of these unreleased songs: 16.20 Woman 18.33 The Tears 25.22 Sweet Memories 28.09 Light Up The Darkness 1985 No songs were registered by Roger in 1985 but he performed America and Me on Nashville Now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvI0G6xXnKI Comment: Strong performance from Roger here 1986 No songs were registered by Roger in 1986 but he performed 'Light Up The Darkness' at Farm Aid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b96QPtvZH6M 1987 Sunshine Love - found a live video version from 1988 see below Tiffany Queen 2 - recorded live at Little Darlin's Rock 'n' Roll Palace, in Kissimmee, Florida https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpHRkJkGYis Living Legend - mentioned in Timeless Flyght but cannot find any recording of this King of the Hill - early Take from the Tom Petty https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDyUD33v7fE&t=59s Comment: Prefer this version to the one on Back From Rio 1988 No songs were registered by Roger in 1988 but I found some interesting video performances: 1) Life In a Northern Town (Dream Academy cover) Video: Roger McGuinn Nashville Now 8/1988: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=633whHMOXWA Comment: I think this is an excellent cover, would love to hear a studio version 2) Live in Jackson Mississippi May 15 1988 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_aGvEZbbtE&t=2698s This performance includes several of his unreleased songs: Sunshine Love (20.14), The Tears (23.15), Tiffany Queen 2 (43.54) Comment: Roger seems to be having a ball here and even plays One More Chance from the City album! Other songs on Sweet Memories not mentioned in Timeless Flyght - Grapes of Wrath, Chasing Rainbows, At The First Edge of the Water... Here's a link to the Sweet Memories album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PhHXwgpYK8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ1lTrz1aOs Camilla McGuinn sheds some light on the Sweet Memories album in a track by track commentary here: Roger McGuinn Blog: Roadie Report 79 by Camilla McGuinn - "Sweet Memories" A Birthday Celebration Here are the key parts: "Chestnut Mare Christmas" - A continuation of the "Chestnut Mare" story. They were reluctant to write a sequel to that classic but the story continues with a tender message and Marty Stuart playing a galloping guitar! “Grapes of Wrath”- The inspiration for this song is the black and white 1940 Henry Fonda movie which the McGuinn’s enjoy watching on a rainy day. "Sweet Memories”- Was written in the early 1980s in Morro Bay, California. The late New York DJ, Pete Fornatale, always encouraged Roger record it. The song was a favorite of Pete’s. To the McGuinns it wasn’t finished yet. There were still the European trips to write about and the wonderful train rides. Unfortunately, Pete passed on before it was recorded. When thinking about the title for this CD, that song seemed so appropriate because of all the memories on this disc. “Catching Rainbows” took years to write and just as long to record. It didn’t fall into place until the beginning of this CD. It too is a song about the McGuinn's adventures. The rainbow photo on the back cover of the CD with the song list was taken by Camilla on an ocean voyage. It was “5:18” in the afternoon when the McGuinns were sitting on their garden porch in Morro Bay, watching a storm rolling onto the California coast. At that time, they never dreamed of leaving California, but they did move a few years later. “The Tears” was written by Camilla on an airplane returning home to California after a long tour. She was thinking about Edgar Allen Poe’s poem, “The Bells.” With a hotel scratch pad and pen, words were scribbled about all the tears many have shed in the privacy of a closet. Roger loves being on the ocean. “At The Edge of The Water” was written by him during the morning dawn while sitting on a ship’s balcony with his guitar. “Light Up The Darkness” was written in the McGuinn’s small rented condo in Century City within a year of their marriage. It was the beginning of a long beautiful relationship in life and work. “Friday” - Roger recorded the song “Friday” because he and Camilla laughed so hard watching the spoof video on youtube they couldn’t stay in their chairs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4KwBklNuSE They even had to research the song to make sure it wasn’t written by Bob Dylan. Roger emailed the creator of the video, Nate Herman, and told him how much enjoyed his work and was thinking of recording the song himself. Nate replied, “Life imitating art imitating life.” I've not been able to find anything else out about the bootleg The Lost Songs of Roger McGuinn sadly, other tracks are mentioned here... The Lost Songs of Roger McGuinn by Roger McGuinn - RYM/Sonemic Here's the remaining studio tracks from Roger outside of the Folk Den project and home recordings... 1990 Byrds Boxset has two new lead songs from Roger: Love That Never Dies (actually only features Roger) and Paths To Victory as well as a redone He Was A Friend of Mine 1991 Back From Rio album Comment: Someone To Love is awesome and I love Without Your Love which also features Chris and David on bvs 1994 Anna from Adios Amigo: A Tribute To Arthur Alexander https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8lcjMPM8q4 Comment: I just found this track and I absolutely love it! 1995 Live From Mars has two studio tracks: May The Road Rise To Meet You Fireworks Comment: Pretty much the last professionally recorded studio tracks from Roger save for one... Pleasant songs 2014 If I Needed Someone (Beatles cover) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_4E67_OzXY Comment: Very nice cover I think I'm right in saying everything else has been home recorded? Please correct me if I'm wrong! Hope someone finds this helpful - was a lot of fun looking into it!
So is he saying he drummed on versions of other songs besides the original single but the released versions were Michael? I say good for Michael for getting pissed off about it. Mick Avory should have done the same.
All I can take from it is that Hal was saying he played drums on other Byrds songs than we don’t know about, but he wasn’t being specific as to which songs. Listening to some Byrds songs he didn’t name, he knew it wasn’t his style so he was saying Michael must have been the drummer on those songs.
Hal Blaine was obviously a superb drummer, but I'm glad Michael was the drummer on "Feel a Whole Lot Better", "8 MH", "5-D", "Thoughts and Words", etc. Sometimes feel - especially the inconsistent but personable feel of a drummer who aspired to as good as Joe Morello but never bothered to practice - makes all the difference.
Oh, got it. No, he sang Mr. Tambourine Man and My Back Pages at the 92 concert. That concert by the way was one of the first if THE first live rock show to be recorded on high definition video.
I have one of those Applause 3/4 guitars that i bought to teach guitar classes. Mine's not signed though (sigh)....
When I got divorced my POS ex tried in a mediation to claim 50% of the amount the value of my guitar had increased by my collecting those signatures while we were married. Her own attorney had to bite his tongue to keep from laughing, while mine just let it rip. First she claimed the value of the guitar - and I showed a picture of my playing a song I wrote on it to her on our wedding day (meaning it was not a marital asset) - then she went to the "amount the value increased" tact. Later in this mediation she argued for valuing my CD collection at what I spent to purchase them - LOL. That didn't work either. I kept my CDs, she kept her books.
I was just thinking about how incongruous “Set You Free This Time” sounds in this context. Then I looked up the lyrics, and it just never really hit me how dense his words are. And for this point in time. He has multiple levels of internal rhyming that extend through the entire song. This is the kind of thing that the best rappers are noted for. Gene’s lyrics are really quite stunning. I know that’s obvious for everyone in this thread. But if you never took a good reading of Gene’s lyrics, take a look. The first thing that I heard you say When you were standing there, set in your way Was that you were not blind You were sure to make a fool of me 'Cause there was nothing there that you could see That could go beyond your mind Now, who's standing at the door Remembering the days before And asking, "Please, be kind"? It isn't how it was set up to be But I've set you free this time I have never been so far out in front That I could ever ask for what I want And have it any time Knowing this, you found the thought for me That told you just what I should be And there I stood behind With all the ones that were before And memories that only seem To tear me from my mind In front of what it is you see me to be I've set you free this time I could never find a chance to choose Between a way to win or a thing to lose Because there was your stand On top of all of the love you took That was always something you could look at Lying in your hand Now, who's wondering what has changed And why it cannot be arranged To have each thing work fine? It isn't how it was set up to be But I've set you free this time
Excellent points and well said! I’ve always loved this song and would get lost in the music before I could absorb all the words and deepness of them. To see the words and look at the changing roles, perceptions and angles of the characters he gives voice to - is purely mind-blowing.
I’ve noticed that Gene’s metaphors around this time were often characterized by fascinating use of spatial prepositions to define status in relationships: “I have never been so far in front...”; “there I stood behind”; “in front of what you see me to be...” etc. It’s like he’s finally seeing the manner in which power and control have been exerted in the relationship: he’s been moved about like a chess piece. And chess is all about moves and strategy. If you look at the stuff Gene was writing around this time (up until ‘68 or so) he used this spatial imagery in quite a few songs. I think it was a brilliant way of mapping out complex feelings, not to mention competitive subtext, within relationships. And when you stop to envision the enormity of the drama unfolding within these brilliant lines, it’s akin to a little film of their relationship—with character development, narrative exposition, and a climax that ostensibly signals a triumph of self-determination, but which, to me, anyway, also contains elements of regret and sorrow.
Maybe not the most popular opinion, but his rhyming scheme and the rhythm of his vocals are very much like Dylan. The difference is he doesn't fall back on or rely on abstract images to fit his scheme. If that makes sense. His lyrics follow the rhyming pattern, which is at times complicated, but they also make sense without relying on plugging in a word or image for the sake of the rhyme. Which, although I have great respect for Dylan as a writer, I feel Bob did quite often. I'd say Gene was equal to or better than Dylan... if you take into account vocals as well it isn't really close.
