DCC Archive Byrds Preflyte Sessions...quick note

Just got this set...and I am NOT disappointed. While the packaging is a bit "inconvinient" (i.e. I'm going to have to leave the huge booklet and the box it came in at home..^_^) it's incredibly informative, yielding a lot of information and anecdotal delights about the World Pacific Sessions. Additionally (and I apologize...I'm not sure about this), I BELIEVE that all of the Preflyte and In the Beginning material is represented.

Sound quality? Everything sounds *fantastic*...nothing like that awful Poptones version of Preflyte that came out recently. Basses are appropriately thumpy, highs are crisp...the best these sessions have sounded.

And yes, the previously unreleased material is worthwhile! My only quibble...as is usual on Sundazed sets, we get 40 tracks over two discs...if only Sundazed was a European reissue label, with these tracks' short running times, I'm sure we could expect something like 70 tracks...I see a "Volume 2" in the future, presuming the vaults haven't completely been combed.

But yeah, it's good. Buy it. Now.

-D

 

As you probably know the European releases tend to have more songs because of the difference in how royalties are paid. But if my understanding of songwriting royalties is correct, under the US system it doesn't cost them any extra royalty $$ to include multiple takes of the same song. So I'm guessing the decision to limit it to 40 songs was an aesthetic one, rather than financial... and being on a Euro label wouldn't have made any difference.

Nice to hear that they did a good job. Sundazed is generally quite reliable.

 

David Goodwin, please email me privately at [email protected]


thanks!!

 

If you are an ardent Byrds fan like I suspect you are, I thought you would like to know that the only Byrd that plays on "Mr. Tambourine Man" and "Turn, Turn, Turn" long players is Jim (Roger) McGuinn! The producer for both albums hired the "wrecking crew" musicians, Hal Blaine, Al DeLory, Larry Knechtel, Carol Kaye, Tommy Tedesco, Glen Campbell, and others to lay down the basic tracks. They listened to the demos furnished through rehearsal tapes, recording the tracks, then Melcher allowed McGuinn to overdub his famous 12-string. Vocal parts were then added, Melcher mixed, and voila, you have two classic albums. This was not unlike what he did with Paul Revere and the Raiders. This helps explain why there was such a radical sound between the first two Columbia albums and what came before and after.

 

Not true, my friend. This myth was debunked years ago. The first Byrds single, Mr Tambourine Man/I Knew I'd Want You, does indeed feature McGuinn and the Wrecking Crew. But aside from those two songs, all the music on the Byrds' first two albums was performed entirely by the Byrds alone.

 

Not true, my friend. This myth was debunked years ago. The first Byrds single, Mr Tambourine Man/I Knew I'd Want You, does indeed feature McGuinn and the Wrecking Crew. But aside from those two songs, all the music on the Byrds' first two albums was performed entirely by the Byrds alone.


>>>>>>Not true.
For sure the single of "Turn Turn Turn" is the Wrecking crew, as it appears in Hal Blaines discography. Also its SO OBVIOUS that TTT has Hal on drums if you know his style. It also sounds like Hal on "It wont Be Wrong", altho I am not sure because it wasnt a hit single and thats all he lists in his disography.

 

Which means nothing. Carole Kaye has said that she's played on a lot of things she hasn't. Memories fade.

Keep in mind Michael Clarke played drums on It's All Over Now Baby Blue, which was *going* to be the next single.

I know session tapes of TTT are out there, but unfortunately I don't have any.

 

Which means nothing. Carole Kaye has said that she's played on a lot of things she hasn't. Memories fade

>>>It might not, but the Gold Record Hal got for Turn Turn, Turn (which he put up for auction in 1999)sure does!!

I've spoken to Hal (he is a SUPER nice guy) and he's told me that he has logs and notebooks of every session hes ever done going back to 1958. The union advised him to do this in the beginning so he would have a record for "forgotten" payments, which happened at times. So Hal knows what he played on and what he didnt, to a pretty accurate degree.

The guys in bands like The Byrds and The Raiders hardly played at all on the records. That was a fact of life in LA and NY in the 1960s. The Wrecking Crew could knock a whole Raiders LP out in 6 hours, all played perfectly. They were that good. The record companies werent going to waste expensive studio time on the band guys when they would get a better product for a lot less money.
Union scale (35.00 per hour in 1965)was the same whether you are Mike Clark or Hal Blaine.

Thats just the way it was!!

 

Don't know about the Raiders, but that wasn't the case with the Byrds. All you have to do is listen to some of the outtakes - the Byrds themselves are clearly there on the tapes. That's backed up by the fact that both Roger McGuinn and other Byrds authorities have stated that the wrecking crew only played on that first single.

 

Really? That's Hal on TTT? Well, that doesn't surprise me too much...the way I always heard it was "The 'wrecking crew' played on the first single, with Jim on 12-string. The rest of their output is largely them, except for the countless times Mike isn't drumming."


And besides, I certainly *hope* that isn't Carol Kaye on Spanish Harlem Incident...^_^

In all seriousness, though, I'm pretty sure the complete 'crew only played on the first single, as has been said earlier on in this thread. I've always found it vastly amusing that the Turtles largely played all of their own sessions, too...odd that out of the Association, PR&TR, and others, the Turtles had the most instrumental integrity...

-D

 

Regarding the Turtles and the Association, Hal Blaine played on the following top 10 singles by both bands:

Along Comes Mary
Never My love
Windy
Everything That touches you


Happy Together
She'd Rather be With Me
Eleanor

I would NOT believe the story that these bands played on their own records "most of the time".
Hal says that the Wrecking crew would do 5 sessions a day, 6, sometimes 7 days a week. thats a lot of hits!!

The producers of the 60s had hits,, or they didnt work there anymore. Hits meant using the pros.

 

I'm sorry...that just doesn't sound true. While I buy the Association stuff, the Turtles stuff just doesn't sound right. All three tracks you cite are Barbata-era...he has a very distinct style, and it most certainly does *not* sound like Hal Blaine (additionally, the few live performances of those tracks that exist have Barbata playing those pretty much exactly).

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one...it just doesn't sound like Hal at all, and as we have Bones Howe's assurance that the Turtles actually played on most of his era material, there's no reason to believe that bringing in Chip Douglas (the guy who made men out of the Monkees) would change that at all.

-D

 

And that one bothers me the most...Elenore wasn't conceived as a hit, and pointedly has the exact same drum sound (and style) as the rest of Battle of the Bands, which would mean that Hal is playing drums on Chief Kamahawahaleya, Buzzsaw...it just doesn't sound right.

And no, this ain't denial..^_^ And I'd appreciate a serious discussion on this matter.

-D

 

Indeed, Johnny Barbata was a full-fledged member of the Turtles and played on Eleanore, Happy Together, and She'd Rather Be With Me. I read Hit Parader and other periodicals throughout the sixties and much was made of Barbata joining the group. Listen to Jefferson Starplane (SIC) and you can identify the style. I played drums in various rock and r&b groups throughout high school, college, and grad school and am a devoted student of Hal Blaine. I know his style and can identify it instantly. I have no doubt that he played on the first two Columbia Byrds albums (tamb. man and ttt), and also selected tracks on their third: Eight Miles High, John Riley, Wild Mountain Thyme, and others. By the way, I have read that he would "jettison" his regular precise style on occasion to give his sound a raw flavor, a good example of this is "Good Thing" by Paul Revere and the Raiders, He intentionally thrashed his set during this cut in order to make the tune sound like he felt Smitty (the Raiders' drummer) would have played it. Back to the Byrds: the producer of the Byrds' third Columbia album, Allen Stanton, was not really a "producer" but a Columbia exec, and it was not until "Younger than Yesterday" that producer Gary Usher fully allowed the Byrds to really play. As a side note, it is important to note that Terry Melcher, as producer of the first two Columbia Byrds' albums, was "locked in" to the LA session scene, and had a special rapport with the "wrecking crew", not to mention Bruce Johnston, with whom he had composed numerous "teenage fun" songs.

 

I'll yield to a few tracks on the first two albums, but Eight Miles High doesn't sound like Hal either...lots of those rolls don't sound like him at all.

-D

 

I would need to see some proof before I would buy that. The Byrds recorded Eight Miles High twice; the official version produced by Stanton and an earlier version produced by Jim Dickson. Both versions have the same drummer, based on the sound. And it is really unlikely that Dickson would have hired Hal Blaine to drum on that session... the whole point of that first 8MH session was to DIY and get the Byrds free from Melcher's influence. So 8MH must be Clarke.

I have a boot with outtakes from the first two Byrds albums. Before a version of "It Won't Be Wrong" Melcher can be heard calling Michael Clarke by name, and telling him how he wants the drums played. And the drumming is basically the same as on the released version, so it's clear Clarke played on that song.

I can believe maybe Melcher brought Hal Blaine in to drum on Turn Turn Turn (the song) but until I see some kind of contradictory evidence of I still believe that Mike Clarke played on everything else on the first three albums (except also for the first single as discussed above). The Byrds have never kept it a secret that Clarke did not drum on half of Notorious Byrd Brothers... why would they lie about his role in earlier albums?

 

Jason.....please email me off line at [email protected]

thank you!!

 

David,

Where did you find this set? I have looked all over. Did you order direct from Sundazed?

Thanks,

Jay

 

Yes, I did. Sundazed releases take a while to propogate into stores; you get them earlier if you order directly from them, or if you patronize a smaller store that makes it an issue to get Sundazed stuff in.

-D

 

A couple quick notes:

- while I haven't done an in-depth A/B with the Rhino CD yet, *everything* other than the Jet Set song is in stereo here. The Rhino CD had a number of songs in mono, often with some stereo processing. Also, almost all of the stereo mixes are quite wide, unlike a few on the Rhino CD.

- one thing the Rhino CD does have over this set is count-offs on certain songs. Oh well.

But, yeah, overall a very nice set. I'm listening now!