Cables and Power Conditioners... next steps

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Ben_pit, Mar 3, 2019.

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  1. Ben_pit

    Ben_pit Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Singapore
    Hi! I need some advice and wanted to get your opinion on a few things before I upgrade some of my gears.

    Current setup:
    1. Clearaudio Concept MC
    2. Marantz Integrated amp (PM-KI Ruby), has a built in phono stage
    3. KEF R700 Speakers
    4. Interconnexions Audience Ohno
    What I am considering:
    1. New power cables that don’t break the bank (not sure if these really make a difference in the overall delivery of the sound) - Product consideration for TT: MCRU Linear Power supply
    2. Power conditioner (heard this reduces the external ground noise dissipation) - Product consideration: audioquest Niagara 1000
    3. Dedicated External phono stage - Product consideration: Lindemann Limetree Phono
    In which order of importance (hearing instant returns on investment) would you invest in and why?

    Thanks!

    Ben
     
    displayname likes this.
  2. F1nut

    F1nut Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Mars Hotel
    Do you have a dedicated 20 amp line?
     
  3. Ben_pit

    Ben_pit Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Singapore
    Sorry about my lack of knowledge but what’s a 20 amp line?
    Cheers.
     
  4. F1nut

    F1nut Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Mars Hotel
    A dedicated 20 amp 10 gauge line from the breaker box to your hifi rig. Since you don't start there as you need a solid base to build on.

    Edit: I see you are in Singapore, so consult an electrician as to what can be done to upgrade the service line to your hifi.
     
    Ben_pit likes this.
  5. Ben_pit

    Ben_pit Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Singapore
    Ok I see, I need to check with my electrician then, thanks!
     
  6. Morbius

    Morbius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brookline, MA
    I wouldn't take F1nut too seriously, just look at his profile! The whole reason to buy a power line conditioner is to make the best use of the electricity already coming into you're room. You'll read varying opinions SHF on the efficacy of power line conditioners and power cords, people referring to them as "snake oil" etc but they can't dispute that they can provided a good solid connection and in the case of a well designed power conditioner, a common ground point for all of you're equipment. In addition they provide surge protection and claim to provide resistance to RFI, EMI and mains born noise. Anyway I use one for good or bad and I just added upgraded power cords and interconnects I'm not ashamed to say.
     
    progrocker, teag, captwillard and 5 others like this.
  7. Samoyed

    Samoyed Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Seattle, wa
    Take a look at the recent Nuprime AC line filter. I have an Evolution DAC and cdt 8 pro and love their products. I’m unsure of jumped up ac cords, though I did buy one for an amp.
     
  8. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    I think an external phono stage should be your top priority. I think that the Lindemann Limetree might be more of a sideways move than a step up. Your Marantz PM-KI Ruby is a fine integrated amp - a very complete and satisfying design that provides wonderful sound. Its internal phono preamp is also good, in my opinion almost as good as the Lindemann Limetree. So if you like the sound of the Limetree, go farther and consider a Lehmann Decade, Trichord Diablo or the Sutherland Insight. Any of those three will provide a very big step up from the internal phono preamp in the PM-KI Ruby.

    For the lower priority items, if you’re going to spend money on AC power cables make sure they have connectors that fit tightly. Also make sure that they’re not so heavy that they put excessive downward twisting/bending pressure on the power sockets on the back of your components.

    The phrase “reduces external ground noise dissipation” doesn’t actually have any positive meaning. No worries. The more important consideration is whether you can hear any faint hiss when nothing is playing, the volume is at zero and your ear is a few inches from the tweeter or woofer. Sometimes the hum and/or hiss that is heard can be reduced by experimenting with various ground/earth configurations. Most often, the noise can be traced to a cable connector with a broken shield connection, or some combination of lifted/not-lifted shield-ground cable connections that are helping to let in the noise.

    Basically, before investing money in cables and conditioners, first make sure the cables you’re currently using are functioning properly. Make sure, also, that the cable you’re using is appropriate for the application.

    Reducing background noise in a system and in the listening environment are the two of the best things anyone can do to improve whatever system they already own. Do that by making the quietest, low resistance/low capacitance connections you can with existing cables (or inexpensive replacements when you find a bad cable in your system now).
     
    LarryP, Helom, Shawn and 2 others like this.
  9. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Phono preamp - then a really good power cord for your integrated.
     
    LeeS, displayname and Dennis0675 like this.
  10. F1nut

    F1nut Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Mars Hotel
    You should take me very seriously because I am being dead serious. A 20 amp 10 gauge dedicated line or lines are the building block of any good hifi rig.
     
    33na3rd, SirMarc, lonelysea and 9 others like this.
  11. Ben_pit

    Ben_pit Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Singapore
    Thanks for your feedback, looks like you know your stuff. I think I am going to take a step back and take a look at some of the phono preamps you’ve suggested. It’s a long but exciting journey ahead, so much fun! Also at some point down the road I’ll have to invest in a hifi rack but that’s for later :)
     
  12. Stefan Sigurdsson

    Stefan Sigurdsson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iceland
    This guy is known for his hate for aftermarket power cables and conditioners. Whenever there is a thread regarding that kind of stuff, he arrives.
    Just trust your ears. Try power cables in your system. Most manufacturers have return policy. You can try for 30 days or so and if you don't like you send them back and get a refund.
     
  13. Stefan Sigurdsson

    Stefan Sigurdsson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iceland
    Congratulations for the stupidest comment on this entire forum.
    Yeah right, so many pounds/kilos they put excessive pressure on well built expensive high-end gear.
     
  14. sushimaster

    sushimaster Forum Resident

    Congratulations for the rudest comment on this entire forum.
    Some cables are so thick and rigid that when you try to make it bend 90 degrees, for example a power amp cable coming straight out the back of the amplifier and then hits the wall, so you therefore must bend it 90 degrees to accommodate.
    This bending creates much pressure especially when it comes to thicker cables.
     
    trd, t3chnobrat, macster and 7 others like this.
  15. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Stupidest? No. High-end gear? What does that have to do with anything?

    From time to time a heavy-duty AC cable can put so much stress on the socket on a component that the cable can either work its way loose or damage the component socket. I’ve seen it.

    I’ve seen lighter-weight components literally dragged off the back of an open rack because the owner connected a really heavy cable, the upper portion of which literally outweighed the component. Not stupid - just a mistake. Or call it a misapplication if you prefer.
     
    trd, macster, bever70 and 1 other person like this.
  16. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    Odd. I was going to pull that part of @Agitater 's post out as the part I agreed with most right behind the part I'm quoting below. I haven't had a too-heavy power cord do any damage (that I know of), but have had them pull themselves away from the socket. Never had one come all the way out, but have come close.

     
    bever70 likes this.
  17. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Can I ask how one makes the quietest, low resistance/low capacitance connections? I haven't heard about this before and would like to know more.

    Thanks.
     
  18. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Furutech have a device to help those very heavy power cables.

    Furutech NCF-Booster

    Those who have used it seem to praise the device.
     
  19. Louis Grignon

    Louis Grignon Active Member

    Location:
    Montauk, NY
    I like to see/hear a balanced system. There are a few simple observations to make and questions to answer. First, ck voltage at the panel, then ck at you outlet. Is their a difference? Yes? then turn off breaker to outlet, pull the outlet from the receptacle (now turn power back on) and ck voltage AT THE END OF THE WIRES WHERE THEY CONNECT TO THE OUTLET. If the voltage is higher than when you ckecked it going through the outlet CHANGE THE OUTLET.
     
    Gibsonian likes this.
  20. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    You didn't use any emojis to signify you were kidding so I assume you're serious. That freakin thing is 350 freakin dollars. No wonder civilians think we're a bunch of nuts.
     
  21. Louis Grignon

    Louis Grignon Active Member

    Location:
    Montauk, NY
    USE A HOSPITAL OR MARINE GRADE OUTLET. They will have a porcelain housing and be more robust.
    Okay, short of running a new, dedicated cable to the outlet you should be fine be fine. From here I use Acoustic Design red river cables for all sources to the amp and between recording sources.
    Speaker wire. I use the AudioQuest X2 wire.

    With a good amp (rogue cronus III), good speaker (Kef LS 50) and good sources, why would I use $5 dollar RCA plug wires to connect the hardware and $.25/ft speaker wire? With $7500 is hardware, I think an investment of under 500 for cabling is about right.
     
    Ben_pit likes this.
  22. eflatminor

    eflatminor Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nevada
    I don't disagree with this statement, and I've done just that in the past. However, what's a renter to do?
     
    Dave likes this.
  23. JohnCarter17

    JohnCarter17 Forum Resident

    Location:
    TX
    It gets much better.
    PT Barnum would be in awe of these guys...

    Look! a CF outlet cover for $235
    [​IMG]
    Furutech 105.1 NCF Neo Damper

    When you absolutely, positively need to have your savings dampened.
    I hope they come in 24-packs so I can do the entire house!
    :rolleyes:
     
  24. Optimize

    Optimize Forum Resident

    Location:
    EU
    If you not are doing near field listening. Then your room is ~50% of the sound. So instead another alternative is to look at first reflections points like side walls, floor and ceiling. With proper absorbents and diffusion.
    But takes more knowledge and know-how than just hook up a power cable. Just a idea.
     
    apesfan, head_unit, bever70 and 2 others like this.
  25. samurai

    samurai Step right up! See the glory, of the royal scam.

    Location:
    MINNESOTA
    As far as power cables, I suggest you build your own.
    There are plenty of great bulk PCs out there and AC connectors too.
     
    ti-triodes likes this.
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