Cables and Power Conditioners... next steps

Well I wasn't kidding since it really exists; but I take your point. We have chosen an expensive hobby.

 

Yes we have and I am glad the wife doesn’t know how much we spend... it’s scary but fun! The other day I asked a few friends if they know what’s a power conditioner... they all said, except one, if I had any issues with my air-conditioning? You see I live in Singapore and we turn on the air-con everyday... anyway thought this was funny and shows that the majority of people don’t know about this stuff unless they’re audiophiles like us. Cheers!

 

This what I had to deal with. An old apartment with questionable multi-chained wiring, but wanted good sound. I couldn't do what F1nut is suggesting being a renter so instead I upgraded my power cords running to a Richard Gray RGPC 400S Mark II line conditioner. I chose the Black Sand Silver Reference Mark V power cord, not cheap, and its next step down power cord, still not cheap at $500. Much to my pleasant surprise these did the trick and much more than any speaker or interconnect cable change ever did for me. Funny thing is though the Silver Reference didn't perform as well as the less expensive one to my power amp from the Richard Gray as it did from the Richard Gray to the wall. Here's my PC set up.

 

There have been a lot of cable discussions on SHF, probably numbering in the hundreds. Some of the threads have been fanciful; some have been practical. I tend toward the practical side of things.

Good quality RCA connectors for interconnects and good quality locking banana plugs for speaker connections are a good start. The tighter (i.e., close tolerance stamping and/or machining using non-oxidizing metal with high conductivity/low resistivity) the RCA connection with the greatest amount of surface area in the pin and sleeve making contact is a start. That reduces microarcing, increases the time it takes for a patina to develop on the component jacks, and ensures that the shields are fully maintained.

A shield that is double-layered makes a quieter cable too, because it helps reduce RFI. Background RFI making its way into systems is the source of noise in a lot of home systems. The better the shielding and the better its soldered in place at the connector, the qieter the system.

Connectors of the correct impedance are fundamentally important as well.

Cable management in stacked and/or racked systems is crucial in the reduction of noise. It’s less of a problem today than it was back in the ‘60s, ‘70s and ‘80s, but it still needs to be addressed. Keep ethernet cable (no matter how well shielded - e.g., CAT6) well away from speaker cable and interconnects. Keep interconnects and digital cables (coax and USB0 away from each other. Keep AC component power cords away from all interconnects and digital cables, and if they have to cross interconnects make sure they do it at 90 degrees.

Use speaker cable with the lowest resistance and the lowest capacitance per foot. Keep them well away (at least 12”) from AC power cables.

There’s more. Cable discipline is important, but no one has to spend much money to start and maintain it.

It’s nice to have a dedicated AC power outlet just for your audio and/or AV setup, but it’s not absolutely necessary, Replace CFC light bulbs in the listening room with LEDs, because CFC bulbs contain a tiny ballast that can oscillate in a way that throws RFI all over the place. Banish dimmer switches to the trash heap because they can sometimes also generate RFI. Never allow an appliance outlet on the same branch circuit as your audio gear.

Keep phono preamps as far away as possible from the mounted catridge to which they’re connected. The limit of the turntable’s phono cable is ideal. Keep the power supply for the phono preamp well away from the turntabe and the phono preamp.

All of these things, taken together, can slightly reduce background noise in even some very well-thought-out systems, and dramatically reduce it in many other systems. And there’s more, but you may be getting a sense of things by now. Try some of the recommendations to see if they help reduce system noise in your setup.

 

It's only as expensive as one chooses.
Some can enjoy the hobby on a modest budget.

 

Hi guys, just a quick update on what I’ve recently purchased as part of my audiophile upgrade strategy. I had a chance to test the Whest Audio Two.2 and was definitely surprised. After a few days of auditioning I noticed a slightly better soundstage, heard more details, seems like the instruments were more evenly spread, some musical phrases I didn’t hear before were perceived and finally the bass felt warmer... now that’s what I call a good return on investment that doesn’t break the bank. So my journey into the world of high-end has started well so far and looking forward to the next upgrade... power conditionner and power cables. Cheers!

 

I know this. Dirty power can affect the audio. Although I have not used a power conditioner, when I was in NYC the power during the day was likely full of trash & noise IMO. Late at night when many loads on the electrical system were off line my stereo sounded more smooth. It was noticeable.

 

Ben, I've been down the road of power conditioners, cables and other tweaks like isolation devices. They all have their place but for value for money they are low. In my fourteen years of experience with high end (and I make no claim to know it all) the biggest improvements to sound in your room that you can make are:

1. Positioning of your speakers and chair.
2. Room treatment (bass traps etc.).
3. Perhaps DSP (Digital Signal Processing) or EQ (equalising).

I do appreciate that your domestic situation may not allow 1 or 2, and being a vinyl guy you may not want DSP/EQ.

If you can, I would spend your money (and time to learn) on these three things first. Once you've done all you can in these areas, then look at cables etc..

Anyway, that said, my solution to power was a power regenerator. I found that worked better then a couple of power conditioners I tried. Having said that I got an expensive one (PS Audio P10).

For cable I bought those fourteen years ago some quite high priced Shunyata products. I'm still using them now.

(Some while ago, as an experiment, I decided to remove all fancy power cables and conditioner and replace with just an ordinary socket block and ordinary power cables. There was very little difference in sound, just a slight edginess but nothing worth the thousands that I paid for the stuff!)

Like isolation devices (I use either Symposium or Finite-Elemente products) the improvements are subtle and not immediately obvious unless you know what you are listening for.

The dedicated power line that F1nut was talking about may help - it depends on your electrical arrangements. I had such a cable and socket installed (here in the UK) and it did nothing! Others claim improvements. You can only ask others in your locality if they've gone down this route. Generally most electricians will think you are being silly.

 

I have an audioquest 1000 as well as the pm-ki ruby and a well regarded $3k outboard phono stage. My sense is that the internal stage of the marantz is - very surprisingly - at least as good as the outboard unit in all but configurability (lack of options like loading, mono, etc. save for mm/mc) and multiplicity of inputs (e.g. can only accommodate one arm), but is otherwise jawdroppingly awesome. Silent noise levels, fast articulate and slamming bass, and airy highs that exceed the performance of all other inputs on the amp even with pretty expensive dacs. The niagara 1000 makes a small, positive difference in my system but I think of it mainly as a very high quality surge protector that keeps all devices on the same line to avoid ground loops. If anything, I would suggest good interconnects and phono cables before upgrading power conditioning or phono stage (as this really can compare with units costing roughly the price of the amp).

 

Appreciate your feedback - #1 has been done successfully to my knowledge. Room treatment will be done once I move to a more symmetrical room and #3, one of the thing I like about the Marantz Rubi Amp is it has an EQ (tone) setting and when there’s just a little too much bass for my taste in one of my vinyl, I turn that on, and that really helps to shape the sound you’re looking for. I was pleasantly surprised to hear the Rubi has a tone option as I understand high-end amps usually don’t come with any EQ features unless I am wrong?

In terms of speaker cables and interconnects I’ve invested into the Audience Ohno category (affordable) and so far I am pleased with what I am hearing.

Before I invest into a power conditioner, I need to try one at home first, test, listen etc... end of the day it’s all about trusting your ears. If you can hear a difference then invest otherwise return it. The AudioQuest Niagara 1000 has very good reviews online and to be honest it’s affordable too so eager to bring my listening experience to a higher level... one day I’ll reach Mount Everest but for now I am at Le Mont Blanc .

 

Thanks for your feedback, please tell me more about your experience with the Niagara 1000! I agree the phono in the Rubi is great but as part of my audiophile journey I knew that getting a dedicated external phono preamp would be the next step to upgrade in the chain and bring a quick return on investment, which it did with the Whest phono stage... Also I’ve tested the Niagara in one of the Audio shop in Singapore (Adelphi - apparently one of the largest audio products showcased in the world all under one roof... ). Next step is to borrow one and test it at home sometime and then I’ll know whether this conditioner really improves and delivers a better and more refined musical listening experience. Cheers!

 

On the other hand you use dirt cheap O2 molecules to transport the sound from your expensive speakers to your precious ears.

 

Dirt cheap, and sometimes dirty. I recommend cables that are designed to clean and polish the dirty molecules out of the air.

 

Now THIS is a really good post. My stuff is plugged into a really sketchy outlet; I plan to change that when I move my stuff some fine day (this summer?), but for curiosity I'll do this when I have it reworked.

 

I'll second that, when I had a dedicated line to my system installed obvious benefits occurred, previously my system was in a loop that powered all other sockets, on the ground floor (not a good idea).

 

I recommend getting an ozone generator to convert to the latest generation O3 molecules.

 

See rabbit hole, jump right in.

 

This makes way too much sense to be applicable in the hifi world.

 

True dat. But O2 molecules seem to be an excellent conductor of sound waves, not so much electrical

 

Getting mine off the sub panel leg seemed to make a difference with parasitic noise.
The swamp cooler used to pop through my system when it turned on.



Steady 120VAC.

 

I'd put $1K into room treatments long before trying a power conditioner or boutique cables. You'll get far more bang for your buck. GIK Acoustics and a few others now offer reasonably priced treatments designed to integrate with the decore rather than be an eyesore.

Your integrated amp floats the chassis ground, so it already goes a long way in minimizing system noise. I doubt you hear anything more than a very soft hiss with your ears pressed against the tweeters. Placing a power conditioner in your system could actually cause more harm than good.

BTW, 12-gauge wire is the standard for a 20-amp circuit. A dedicated line is never a bad idea and while 10-gauge wire doesn't hurt in terms of capacity, the terminals of a 20-amp outlet are designed to accommodate 12-gauge wire. Your entire system is not likely to ever draw more than a few amps.

 

I booked a electrician to come and look at the work I wanted and as my wife was on maternity leave I left her with my needs. She described me as mad when she handed him my list, he said it made perfect sense and they'd done the same for the computer department at the local uni.

I was able to give my wife the "Smug expression".

 

Thanks I agree - I think it’s going to be more like borrow a power conditioner for a couple of days and try it. Cheers!

 

Glad you enjoyed trying the Whest. In my case, I ran a Pass Xp-15, a Modwright tubed stage, a Sutherland 20/20, and a Gold Note stage/psu with the Pm-Ki Ruby and always found the internal stage to match my cartridge and table (Hana Ml, Amg giro) with similar performance (and occassionally faster bass and lower incidental noise). In a lot of ways, in my system, I think the phono stage is voiced to neutralize the (seductive and very agreeable) character of the Ruby's line stage and reaches peak "you are there" neutrality. I run a Cardas Clear Cygnus phono cable and it's a great cable, incidentally.

In your case, I think investing in biamp speaker cables makes more of a difference than the Audioquest, which has improved my digital components more than it has any amp stage itself... very, very slightly less sense of grain, but nothing major (compared to speaker cables and interconnects). I use audioquest power cables, but nothing fancy (nrg-4) I also heartily room treatment.