Can I use 91% isopropyl alcohol to clean vinyl?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Veech, Oct 4, 2021.

  1. pacvr

    pacvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    Skip that -its some kind of blend of unknown ingredients, and just buy 1-quart of Alxonox Liquinox and use at 0.05% - 5 mL per 1L or 1-qt. It will clean better than a IPA-Triton blend.

    When using the Liquinox make sure you post rinse with DIW. There are a number of different places you can buy the Liquinox:
    Amazon.com: Alconox - 1232-1 1232 Liquinox Anionic Critical Cleaning Liquid Detergent, 1 quart Bottle : Health & Household
    Alconox Liquinox Detergent, 8 pH, 1 Quart (schoolspecialty.com)
    Liquinox, Quart (shop-esp.com)
    Alconox 1232-1 $19.18 Detergent, 1 qt. | Zoro.com

    What surfactant did you try to buy?
     
  2. Veech

    Veech Space In Sounds Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    OK, thanks. I had ordered the Triton X-100 from Amazon (this was before I had read your reply). Apparently there is some unknown delay in the delivery. I was anxious to try something today but none of this stuff is available locally other than the surfactant from tractorsupply.com.

    DIW is distilled water, correct? Or is it deionized water?

    Edit - would this do the job? https://www.amazon.com/Alconox-Detergent-Cleaning-Concentrate-Container/dp/B0000WU828?th=1 It appears that the only difference is that the powder contains phosphates.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
  3. pacvr

    pacvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    Yes, DIW is distilled water.
     
  4. Veech

    Veech Space In Sounds Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
  5. pacvr

    pacvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    Skip that also, it requires a very high concentration 1%/10,000 ppm for use techbull_alconox.pdf which makes rinsing a problem. Note my previous post was in error - use the Liquinox at 0.5%. The Liquinox is 50% concentrated so a 0.5% solution is only 2,500 ppm and its completely soluble in water techbull_liquinox.pdf (alconox.com) whereas the powdered Alconox is alkaline, uses phosphates and is limited to 10% solubility in water.
     
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  6. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    I’m going to have to make a video with me doing my own cleaning method. the diluted dish soap running water method. And explain why I do each step the way I do it. Why Palmolive soap, why no alcohol, why cold water, why hands must squeegee the grooves, why record is not set up to dry, and which type of towel is used to dry, and in what way, how labels are protected. Which labels are fine and need no special care. And how labels are set to completely dry.

    My treatment has gained a lot of credibility in two decades since I first presented it on the Internet. I was the first ever on the internet to state I do it this way. Others somewhere have done it before of course, but I was first to ever say it online in any forums or boards.

    Anyway, it’s also the least expensive. Disc Doctor and Nitty Gritty owners and especially the sellers of systems really hated my ideas at first. But flash forward and its really caught on.

    The “lodged pebble” factor is a very real issue that I have addressed - but yet no one else has. I sometimes call it the potato chip factor! Lololol
     
  7. Lenny99

    Lenny99 The truth sets you free.

    Location:
    Clarksburg WV
    Ok: u use Palmolive dish soap, diluted with distilled water, than wash by hand, cold water rinse, and towel dry.

    Some questions:

    What the diluted %? How long do u rinse. Do u rinse with tap water or distilled water? Do u use any particular type of towel?

    I’m willing to give it a try.
     
  8. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    Here's a video I did a couple of years ago. The IPA / Triton X100 recipe.
     
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  9. Veech

    Veech Space In Sounds Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    This guy arrived today, the Groovmaster Label Saver. I'll test it on a disposable vinyl but assuming it works as advertised it opens up the option of sink cleaning.


    [​IMG]

    For sink cleaning, I'm considering a few drops of Dawn in about 3" of cold water, using water from our reverse osmosis system which gives us about 10 to 15 TDS in PPM. Wiping gently with a micro-fiber cloth or maybe gently scrubbing with a Record Doctor Clean Sweep brush following the grooves of the LP. Then rinse with distilled water applied with a sprayer. Finally, rinse again with distilled water on the RCM.

    Thoughts?
     
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  10. doctor fuse

    doctor fuse Forum Resident

    Really, you just want a bit of alcohol, to reduce the surface tension of the water and detergent, so they can get right to the bottom of the grooves. I add two capfuls of El Cheapo dollar store 50% isopropyl to my SPin CLean homebrew (water, a drop or two of clear, "pure plant-based" dish soap, and two capfuls of alcohol. Works a treat (with vacuuming!).

    DO NOT USE ETTHYL ALCOHOL/ETHANOL. It can react negatively to vinyl (warping it, is the most common side effect).
     
  11. Veech

    Veech Space In Sounds Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Is there any way to speed up the mixing process? Looks like my bottle of triton X-100 is due to arrive in the next few minutes.
     
  12. Veech

    Veech Space In Sounds Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    How much water? A pint?
     
  13. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Two caps of 50% alcohol in a Spin Clean tank is so dilute that it really isn't worth the trouble. It certainly isn't required to drop the surface tension of the water if you're using detergent (the detergent is a far more effective surfactant than the alcohol).

    Also, I've absolutely bathed countless albums in denatured alcohol (mostly ethanol with a small amount of methanol as a denaturant). My albums are clean and remain flat.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2021
  14. Veech

    Veech Space In Sounds Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Just received the X-100 and mixed a quart of the base. It's like a lava lamp. Hoping it dissolves by tomorrow.
     
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  15. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    I fill an empty bottle of Palmolive with about 4/5 of water, and then add 1/5 of the green dish soap from another new full bottle, and leave an inch or so empty so you can shake it up good with some air helping to mix it well.

    The soap will be thin but still slick on LP surface, and rinse easier being not full strength. The trick is to rinse one side 15 to 20 seconds, and then the other side, then set LP aside and rinse your hands really good, and re-rinse the LP again paying good attention to labels because they can absorb soap and need to be very clear as well. So two rounds of rinsing each side, 15 - 20 seconds each round. The water will run off of the LP and show not streaking or residual soap. Also do not catch the edge of the LP on the faucet, causing a nice scratch on the first song.

    I use a 100% cotton terry cloth towel, one that absorbs well and is very soft. Older towels absorb the best, but they can become hardened and not soft enough. Newer towels do not absorb the water well enough, old towels can be too stiff on the vinyl. Something soft and absorbing. I have a favorite couple of towels I have been using for 15 years. They are wearing out, but so nice, leaving no signs of the LP ever having been cleaned or dried. Towel dry in direction of the grooves, and this takes some practice.

    I use cold tap water that has been running for a good 6 to 8 min. before starting. For very high end audiophile type LPs I will do a finale splash of distilled water. For normal nice records, the tap water is fine, because you are not letting this water dry ion the LP, you are wiping it all off with the clean terry towel. So any impurities are not left behind on the LP. I did a Pink Floyd SQ quadraphonic "Wish You Were Here" ($$$$$) a few years back, my favorite PF album and favorite mix, and favorite mastering of this title... and I did my patented cleaning method as described, but I did the final good long splash of distilled water at end before drying. I do do the distilled water on the really nice ones only.

    You can see that this really needs a video to show what and how this is done. Soap is kept away from labels are it is applied Rubbing LP surfaces in direction of grooves is fine, but rubbing labels is avoided in most circumstances. Also drying the labels is done by patting down the surface, and no wiping across in most cases. I sometimes roll a roll of TP over the label to get the water off it if it is a flat matte type label that I know is fine with water (Atlantic, Atco, Capitol, DG) but do not want to cause wear. Certain labels get micro bumps after water has soaked in (Santa Maria CBS, WB, Elektra, etc.). I make a call here, the record needs deep cleaning and is not really valuable, who cares, or LP is very special, and I need the label to come out perfect new at end.

    The air drying I do is also paid special attention to. A clean table with tall cups or glasses.

    This is my take on tap water, as long as you are not using well-water with rust, etc. it's fine. You brush your teeth with this water, you shower in it or bathe in it, so if its good enough for your body, skin, and mouth, it good enough for records I'd think. Or your priorities are very out of whack.

    I've been told by my record buyers that my records are the cleanest used records that they have ever bought. They go into nice rice-paper inner-sleeves, and Japanese resealable outer.
     
  16. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    Where is this found and how much? My cleaning method is about perfect for 80% of LPs, the 20% require very careful attention to labels, and this device would be helpful for those known water risky labels (RCA, black glossy Capitol, etc.)
     
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  17. pacvr

    pacvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    - The Clear Choice For Cleaner Sound® (groovmaster.com). There are cheaper knockoffs, but they are 1/3 the thickness.
    Since you know have the label protector - and this one does work; you could use the cleaning procedure detailed Chapter V with pictures - Vinyl Record Manual Cleaning Process (thevinylpress.com) modified as follows for your specific situation:

    1. Pre-Rinse: With label protector installed, pre-rinse with steady stream of lukewarm to warm tap water (no need to use spray) to remove loose debris.

    2. Clean: Liberally wet both sides of the record with the IPA/Triton (spray bottle) cleaning solution. The solution will wet the surface (not bead-up) almost instantly. Applying only a light pressure (the brush handle can scratch the record), use the Record Doctor™ Clean Sweep Record Brush (or equivalent) in moderately short, fast, back and forth motions (such as two back-and-forth motions per second) that follow (are parallel to) the arc of the grooves, and clean the record both sides. For those familiar with record cleaning machines (RCMs) – clean the record the equivalent of 3 to 5 rotations. The back-and-forth motion of the brush will perform the same as reverse rotation. Holding the record on an angle (about 45° to 60°) can assist with the cleaning process. The low surface tension of the cleaner will keep it on the record. The cleaner will develop foam with most of the foam collecting in the brush.

    3. 1st Rinse: Using lukewarm to warm tap water, flush the record with a steady stream (no need for spray) of water on both surfaces until the record is free of any cleaner. While rinsing, with very light pressure, use the Record Doctor™ Clean Sweep Record Brush (or equivalent) in moderately slow long back-and-forth motions (i.e., similar to using a paint brush) that follow (are parallel to) the arc of the grooves to assist the water rinse and to flush the record brush of cleaner. But, at the end, separately rinse the record both sides and the brush with only a steady stream (no need for spray) of water to ensure removal of cleaner from both.

    4. 1st DIW Rinse: Using the DIW (distilled/demineralized water) spray bottle (EDIT you can use your RO water), liberally spray the record surface from top to bottom (both sides) to remove the tap water. The surface should readily bead-up evidence that all cleaner has been removed. This will leave only DIW that when dry will leave a clean, spot free surface. Gently shake the record to remove bulk drops.

    5. 1st Dry: Using a clean lint-free microfiber cloth - following the arc of the record grooves, lightly wipe the surface to just remove bulk water-the large drops. No reason to fully dry - you will do more harm than good. Then, away from the sink, give the record a good two (2) shakes to dislodge moisture that is under the edges of Record Label Protector.

    6. Remove record from Record Label Protector and move to your VPI RCM. Rinse with DIW (EDIT: you can try your RO water - <15 ppm TDS is not bad, distilled water is <2.5 ppm) and vacuum dry.

    Good Luck

    PS/Once you get this far, there are enhancements that can be done to improve the cleaning process if you want.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2021
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  18. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    Just keep flipping it upside down a few times every so often. It will.
     
  19. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    Not really. Patience my friend.
     
  20. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    I'd avoid tap water. I know some feel it's fine to do that as long as you rinse with distilled water but as cheap as distilled water is, why not just stick with that through every step of the process?
     
  21. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    Here's how I clean my records. I have modified it a little bit since I shot this. The biggest change is that now on used records I go ahead and put the record on the old TT and spray cleaner on it. Then I use the painters pad and scrub both sides, then it picks up with the normal process.
     
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  22. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    @pacvr indicated tap water from large municipal systems is okay, especially with a final rinse of distilled.

    I think the issue with tap is the folks living with wells with so-so filtering, that don't do a final rinse.

    I can see the advantage to flushing with lots of water under pressure.
     
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  23. lazydawg58

    lazydawg58 Know enough to know how much I don't know

    Location:
    Lillington NC
    Maybe so. But I use to work as a water plant operator, granted way back in the 1980s, but the object wasn't to eliminate all the minerals, impurities etc. It was to make sure it was safe to drink, not exceeding any of the federal standards. Water whether from rivers, lakes, aquifers, shallow wells, treated by a municipality or not, varies greatly. I wouldn't assume it is fine to use without having it tested or getting a report from the water department.
     
  24. Veech

    Veech Space In Sounds Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Amazon, $46 plus about $5 in shipping. Kinda pricey but it is very well made and I consider it an investment.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NP0QAOW?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2021
  25. Veech

    Veech Space In Sounds Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    After about three hours of flipping the lava lamp :D I placed the quart container with the base mix in a bowl of lukewarm water and it dissolved fairly rapidly, in less than an hour. This morning all bubbles are gone and the solution is completely clear. So I think placing the container of base mixture in lukewarm water helps accelerate the mix?
     
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