Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Veech, Oct 4, 2021.
I'm slow but eventually it sinks in!!!!
So I need to amend this to, "I'll start taking out 17 oz from the gallon of distilled water and replace it with 16 oz of iso alcohol and 0.65 oz of Triton." (I'll probably just pour out a little less than an 1 oz to add)
Utilizing many of the suggestions here I've altered my record cleaning procedure. If you can stand to watch it to the end I'd appreciate comments, suggestions, criticisms, etc.
Thanks for taking the time to share.
Thanks for taking the time to put the video together, nicely done. Here are three items:
1. You are using way more Liquinox than necessary - you are preparing a 10% concentration (13-oz/128-oz). If you read back - I said 1% which would be 1.3-oz/128-oz. To make this easy - just add 2-oz to 128-oz for a 1.5% solution.
2. For really grungy records - recommend you do the pre-clean (Liquinox 1.5% = 2-oz/gal) twice. How you are doing your procedure - it only adds a few minutes. For your pre-clean step were you spray/scrub (same as any vacuum-RCM) you are not using a lot of cleaner volume. So what happens is that the cleaner can become quickly saturated with soil. The 2nd application of the pre-clean step Liquinox makes sure that the tough soil is removed.
3. The Liquinox, ISO (IPA) and Triton X100 all Lower the surface tension of the fluid so it 'wets' the record.
Thanks! It's a learning process for sure. But eventually I'll get it to a best practice.
I must have misinterpreted some of your post where you were discussing making a Liquinox solution in a quart quantity. I thought it was 1.5 to 3 oz to a quart, so I just said times 4 to get a gallon. I'll drop that back down to 2 oz per gallon in my next batch. Meanwhile will it hurt anything to use up what I already made or should I just toss it?
The advantage of an repeat of the pre-clean before moving to the next step makes sense, better to catch it then then completely finish and have to go back and repeat everything.
I was searching for the term, "wets" or "wetting agent" in the video. I know it but taping without editing and sometimes what you want to say and what you actually do say are two different things. I was having the same problem with "surfactant" if you noticed I just couldn't get the word out (fear of mispronouncing?) so I just finally said "detergent" or something like that.
I'll do a correction on the mixture in the video so I don't mislead folks.
Thanks for everything.
Here is where I must have misinterpreted the amount of Liquinox to add.
"Yes - switching to add Liquinox 0.5 to 1% solution with DIW (5-10mL/L or ~1.5-3 oz/Qt - close enough) as the spray-on pre-cleaner would benefit the process. I really like the Amazon.com: Record Doctor Clean Sweep Brush : Electronics for hand wash. Mine has cleaned 100's of records and is till going strong."
I thought in that highlighted part you were saying that was how much per quart to add.
I would interpret that line as adding 1.5 - 3 oz per quart of solution. I mean, that's what it says.
The conversion is wrong. 5ml is only 0.17 oz.
That was my error, it should have stated (5-10mL/L or ~0.15 to 0.3 oz/Qt - close enough); I missed the decimal point; 3oz/Qt is 10% not 1%. You are the 1st person I have worked with that uses ounces; most use mL and L. Sorry for the confusion.
But it also says "...switching to add Liquinox 0.5 to 1% solution with DIW", and 5-10 mL/L is 0.1-0.2%. As I said above, I miss placed the decimal point.
Right now you have 1-gallon of 10% Liquinox? If so, just pure the spray-bottle - looks like a 1-qt container back into the 1-gallon Liquinox container and then measure out 6-oz of the 10% Liquinox and add that to the spray bottle and top off with Distilled Water, you will end up with a 0.19% solution.
Error - 5-10 mL/L is 0.5 to 1.0% (I was typing but also thinking about the concentration I just specified for @lazydawg58). Oh well.
@lazydawg58 I am having a tough time today with these decimals today. The above should read: "...you will end up with a 1.9% solution. ".
No problem at all my friend. I'm very provincial and don't come from a science background, thus my lack of using metric measurement.
After watching your video, and having some time to think about I have some thoughts for you.
Your very first step which sprays the Liquinox on the record and then scrubs with the painter brush is risky. Why, because the record is initially covered with loose/large dust/particles and what you are now doing is grinding that dust/particles into the record. The painters brush does not have bristles long enough to wick up fluid with the particles.
In my manual procedure - the very first step is to rinse under flowing water to first remove any loose/large junk. Before you incorporated the Liquinox you would use the VinylStyl Record Cleaner with DIW+ISO/IPA+Triton - VNST10060261 Vinyl Styl™ Deep Groove Record Washer System – Vinyl Styl you can buy ebay Vinyl Styl Deep Groove Record Washing System CLEAN ALBUMS Anti-Static Fluid | eBay (similar type with label protector - Knosti AntiStat Record Cleaning System - Generation 2 (turntableneedles.com) and this provided more fluid volume to wet/lubricate/float those large particles.
Here are three Options, the first 2 you can do with what you have:
Option 1: Everything you are currently doing except a new first step:
1. Spray Liquinox on the record surface to achieve a film that fully wets the record - do not brush - vacuum liquid but do not dry. This step is to try to get the loose stuff off safely. Then reapply Liquinox, brush and vacuum. Do not fully dry the record - leave it damp. Continue with the rest of your procedure.
Option 2 - using what you have (two basins - they both look like Vinylstyl) :
1. Apply label protector and 1st (pre) wash in first VinylStyl with 1-2% Liquinox. Once you have spun it for a few revolutions you can use your painter brush to assist the goat-hair brushes. Dump this bath after every 5-10 records depending on how grungy they are.
2. Vacuum rinse & partially dry: Remove label protector and move the record to vacuum platter and first spray with DIW (you can add some ISO/IPA) and then vacuum. A clean brush will assist the rinse. Do not fully dry. Leave the record damp.
3. Apply label protector and move to second basin (is this a VinylStyl?) and 2nd wash (final) with DIW+ISO/IPA+Triton. After this step the record should be clean except for some small amount of Triton residue and whatever contaminants are in the bath.
4. Vacuum rinse & dry. Remove label protector and move the record to vacuum platter and first spray with DIW (you can add some ISO/IPA). No reason to brush but if you do make sure the brush is clean, and vacuum-dry.
Option 3: Buy another VinylStyl Vinyl Styl Deep Groove Record Washing System CLEAN ALBUMS Anti-Static Fluid | eBay. Here is a process that should work and be less work:
1. Apply label protector and 1st (pre) wash in first VinylStyl with 1-2% Liquinox. Once you have spun it for a few revolutions you can use your painter brush to assist the goat-hair brushes. Dump this bath after every 5-10 records.
2. Moved record to second VinylStyl basin with DIW+ISO/IPA for rinse. Moving from Steps 1 to 2 will be seamless since the label protector moves from basin to basin.
3. Move to third basin (is this a VinylStyl?) and 2nd wash (final) with DIW+ISO/IPA+Triton. If this third basin is a Vinylstyl moving from Steps 2 to 3 will be seamless since the label protector moves from basin to basin. After this step the record should be clean except for some small amount of Triton residue.
4. Vacuum rinse & dry. Move the record to vacuum platter and first spray with DIW (you can add some ISO/IPA). No reason to brush but if you do make sure the brush is clean, and vacuum-dry.
Only one of my basin's is a vinyl styl, the other is a Studabaker, basically a cheap knockoff of the Spin Clean. Of the options you suggest I'd favor the first. But I'm wondering if there might be another option.
What if I reversed the start of the process? Go to the (1) basin with the Triton mixture for a pre-clean to get any surface particles off, (2) vacuum, then I go to the (3) turntable and apply the liquinox with spray bottle and painter pad, (4) vacuum, then go back to the (5) basin with the Triton mix for a second go round, (6) vacuum and then go to the (7) rinse basin, then (8) final vacuum?
Your proposed process will quickly contaminate the DIW+ISO/IPA+Triton bath and when you go back to it after the Liquinox you are more than likely going to contaminate the record because you are cleaning with dirty fluid. Just try Option 1.
I ordered one last week and it should arrive this week. I usually clan LPs with no label protector but I must quickly dry certain labels or avoid getting water on them at all. This device will help for those certain LPs. I got it from groovemaster on eBay and save a few bucks that way.
My Groovemaster label protector arrive today - a bit faster than expected. Packed well and sent Priority Mail!!!
I'm going to test it out tonight. I hope it does not cover too much of the area outside of the label, and leave a banded area uncleaned. But anyway, it will save some potential label damage on those certain LP labels that are most prone to get soaked in the wrong way during my water / Palmolive dish soap cleaning.
I cleaned a dozen albums this afternoon. I sprayed with Liquinox mix, but didn't scrub as Neil suggested. I vacuumed then sprayed again and scrubbed, vacuumed, went to the basin with the Triton mix, vacuumed, went to the rinse basin and vacuumed again. All of these were bought for $2 each, dusty, scuffed, basically well loved 60s and 70s albums, almost all Rolling Stones. I only had time to play two but one came out the other end VG and another VVG. I was pleased.
Here is a video I just up loaded that includes all of the changes suggested my Neil. I think I've got as good a cleaning method now as anything you get from an expensive RCM or Ultrasonic bath. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated and Neil if you see this please let me know what you think.
Thanks for taking the time to video together - you did great job of explaining and showing exactly what you were doing. My compliments -
PS/For those in EU/UK, while distilled water is expensive, deionized which is just as good is cheap and readily available.
The bottles I get here say they contain alcohol and water.
Do you use any commercial record cleaning solutions? Do they list the components used?
Separate names with a comma.