That's correct, but with today's tools you can still do a lot of mix work even on a stereo audience recording. Anyway, don't trust someone on the internet, go and find the tape in question and listen for yourself, and then tell us what you think
Can’t really mix anything that is only a stereo file. All you can do is eq, compress and de-noise stuff. You can do m/s processing as well with these but that is about it. Mixing has to do with multitrack tapes. With stereo it is mastering.
That used to be the case and is obviously still the best place to start from (multitracks I mean), but like I said, with current audio tools you have a lot more options than you ever had separating instruments and vocals from a stereo file. But hey, I'm not trying to convince you of anything... no point in splitting hairs too. You stick to your terminology. Just a hint maybe if you are genuinely interested - check out some of the mixing work of a certain Prof. Stoned.
Sorry but it has always been the case. I am a mixing engineer myself. I know what the tools are and whatis available currently. It is just a bunch of stuff doing things with EQ and phase relations in a stereo field. I mean you can remove lead vocals from a recording to a degree if they are in the center by removing the mids in a m/s setup. This is not rocket science. This is still not mixing is what I am getting at. So the issue is that your terminology is incorrect. There is mo mixing per se. it really is mastering of a stereo source. Mixing is when you have separate tracks on separate channels where you can alter the specific tracks volume/eq/compression/etc. in relation to the other tracks. When you do that type of processing on a stereo source, the audio is alteryin a very negative way. There will be loss of other elements. I know who Prof Stoned is. He is doing nothing magical that anyone else can do with a sound card and plugins. He is basically mastering the mono/stereo audio files.
You're right of course, strictly speaking I was using the word too loosely. I'd still like to hear what you all thought about the mastering choices for the first couple of these live releases?
Me to, but I guess Surfling is comparing them with the ”original” untreated tapes. I have not heard it, so cant say if its better or worse. But I dont feel like I miss something when listen to these releases. Sounds good to me.
The audience tapes on both releases so far were recorded by Andy Hall, a friend of the band and super-fan. He sadly passed away recently. I hope he was able to share his archive with them for future safe-keeping. He had studio tapes most Can fans could only dream about. He was actually allowed to make copies when he visited the band ! He was trusted to keep them to himself which he absolutely did. I spent several afternoons at his place listening to stuff. He also told me certain unscrupulous visitors actually ran recordings when Andy was out on errands...which is why things like the birth of Mother Upduff and Doko E `escaped'. I must admit I would be far more interested in more unedited studio stuff, but apparently Irmin disagrees. I find their live stuff post-Damo pretty `meh' I must say.
Interesting. I knew about him as the source is all the live gigs, but not that he had copies of studio material. Personally, I’m pretty convinced that the live gig series will run out of steam sooner or later. I can’t imagine this stuff being that popular. I was surprised that the full 30 minute Doko-E never made it to the Lost Tapes box. So now we must assume that Schmidt doesn’t want stuff like it released. Thanks for the post.
They wil atleast focus on 3 more live recordings, the one coming now and two next year, which i supplied to them, i am in contact with them, so i will know more than you guys
Exactly, that's why I'm curious. I was really happy with the official release until I dug out my copy of the original recording. The difference is striking.
Damn, with regards to Stuttgart 1975 I just compared the circulating recording compared to the official release and it's like night and day, the unofficial version is SO much better - sounds like they were heavy handed with the NR and cut a lot of highs to me Here's the unofficial version and the info file that came with it CAN (finkployd49-TomP V2 remaster === Gustav Siegle Haus Stuttgart, Germany 1975-10-31 Source 1: flac files from finkployd49 - thanks !! Most of this post Source 2: my V1 remaster [REDACTED] (last 6:30 and patching inter-track gaps only) sbd > ? > trade cdr > eac > flac > edit > TLH (flac 6 & SBE / decode check) Higher resolution amended artworks are included courtesy of candyman68 - thanks too !! Transfer: flac > Nero > burn > EAC > Flac Frontend Quality: Worth an A++ now ----------------------------- I recently re-seeded my V1 remaster and then finkployd49 kindly came up with a much improved source, so this is now the improved V2 version in significantly improved quality. Candyman68 also provided higher resolution artwork in V1 comments, observing that his original artwork had been much degraded by multiple copies, leading me to think that the V1 files must be significantly higher generation copies. Hope folks like this upgrade. TomP post on [REDACTED], April 2014...Enjoy !! Irmin Schmidt - Keyboards Michael Karoli - Guitar & vocals Holger Czukay - Bass & electronics Jaki Leibezeit - Drums Set List (79.28) ---------------- 01 - Improvisation 19:38 02 - Bel Air 13.27 > 03 - Dizzy Dizzy 11.28 > 04 - Pinch 12.09 > 05 - Quantum Physics (on 'speed') 12.17 > 06 - Improvisation 10.29 Edit details (Nero 8 unless indicated): Phase inversion of all tracks (Audition 3) Phase offset correction, moved Left channel +1 CD sample, then further correction of short patches Stitched the last 6:30 of track 06 from V1 onto the end of V2 Corrected inter-track gaps in V2 by patching from V1 Fixed extended volume and balance variations Fixed a few short gaps / glitches on Pinch Bass boost, +2dB Treble boost, +2dB on V1 patches only Added flac tags (Tag & Rename)
Very sad to hear of Andy Hall's passing, he was a true boon to the Can community and by all accounts a really nice guy to boot and of course along with Pascal Bussy he gave us the first book about Can https://www.amazon.co.uk/Can-Book-Pascal-Bussy/dp/0946719055
I've posted this sort of thing a lot of times here, never had a problem as long as I don't say where to get the recording from, hence the [REDACTED]
It would be interesting to listen to the original file as it was recorded. From what I can understand this version been "remastered", Bass boost, +2dB, Treble boost, +2dB and what else they have done with it Don't change the way you feel for the official version I guess
Well it doesn't change what my ears are hearing, so no I prefer this remaster to the original recording and the official remaster. How about you?
I did hear from Sandra Podmore (Irmin and Hildegarde's daughter) via Andy about some tapes I have, and tried to suggest to her that unedited studio recordings would make a wonderful project for a Bandcamp download page but she actually remarked that if she released some of that stuff "Irmin would kill me !" I guess he has very high standards and doesn't see the value in releasing things which were maybe experiments. For example I heard a piece at Andy's called `The Tortoise' which lasts about 25 minutes and is the slowest band jam you've heard...it takes ages to pick up any speed or tempo at all but was a fascinating listen. There is also the deranged `Get The Can' which features Malcolm Mooney screaming for 20+ minutes, and another 30 minute reel called `Moving Butterfly In Pink', also from the Malcolm era. Yeah it's a real shame to be saddled with their live `jam band' period tbh when there is all that interesting stuff which would really would give a picture of their day to day working at Inner Space. They have it all and digitised it all, but Irmin has the say !!
I'm glad they have self-imposed standards. I thought Lost Tapes was a mixed bag. I have a single CD distillation that suits me. With all those studio jams I think they really would have needed Holger's editing skills to make it into a set of listenable wholes.
My point was though, that certain hardcore fans would like to hear the unedited jams I guess...the `Graublau' soundtrack for example is an hour of stuff altogether. I wish I still had Andy's list....it made for interesting reading ! There was very brief talk which went as fast as it came, of making the individual tapes available for download, but we'll see. Their reputation is assured, so I can't see that it would do any harm; a look at the band from a forensic level....but views differ
Personally I thought The Lost Tapes was one of the best archival releases by any band, so much goodness there for me - and I'd happily listen to an hour of Primal Can jamming through the Graublau soundtrack...
Yes, I`m also a big fan of The Lost Tapes, and the sound is really great on all studio outtakes included. I would buy a big box of unedited recordings by Can…
