Can we get a quick rundown of Oppo players/Universal players.

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by PB Point, Oct 10, 2019.

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  1. porieux

    porieux plook me now you savage rascal

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    yes, for dvd. Not blu-Ray though. Just figured the op should know that.
     
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  2. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    I prolly wouldn't notice any difference with my mid-fi rig, but many people actually found the 5 line to sound ¨too clinical¨, preferring the 3s warmer sound. Have not heard any 5s, so you tell me !
     
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  3. Sterling1

    Sterling1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Making highest quality products and selling them for very little money, like the OPPO 205, is a winner with consumers; but, it requires volume production. There just was not enough volume however to sell a $5000 value for $1399. Now, the used OPPOs are actually selling for their true market value, or worth. I'm sooo glad I did not miss out. My 205 delivers multi-channel music pleasure that is just awesome.
     
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  4. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    When I used the word "compromised", I was referring to the 105 and 205 compared to the 95, and specifically in the way the double DACs are implemented. I don't remember the specific technical explanation, only that it was reported in an interview with an Oppo engineer. In the 95, the double DACs are ONLY used in the audio conversion. In the 105 and 205 they are used in both the audio and video conversion, to improve video significantly.
     
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  5. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    That feels unusual to the point I have to suspect it's being misquoted. Putting aside the fact that Oppos have dedicated video processing hardware and roping A/D chips into the process would seem odd and unnecessary, all of the upscale Oppo models had multichannel DACs that were totally discrete from the stereo DACs with the balanced outputs. I liked this because I could plug them right into a 2.0 system vs. having to adjust settings the way I did with the lower end 93/103.

    If I had to guess, an Oppo engineer was explaining the difference between the 93 and the 95. I'd say he'd have had to have been an ex-employee if he was explaining the new model isn't as good as the old model.
     
  6. jhw59

    jhw59 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rehoboth Beach DE.
    Kind of weird-gapless playback choice disappeared from the option toolbar. It worked before. I emailed Oppo CS. Has anyone else had this issue?
     
  7. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I'm far from being a very technological knowledgeable person. But I really do not understand what you mean when you say the DACs in the 105 and 205 are used for video conversion. As far as I know the Sabre DAC chips in the 105 and 205 are used only for audio.

    I really think it would be best if you posted links of the actual quotes you read to back up what you are posting. No offense but I think you might be misinterpreting what you read.

    OPPO Digital - Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc Players
    • Dual SABRE PRO DACs
      OPPO UDP-205 is equipped with two ESS Technology ES9038PRO DACs for both stereo and 7.1 channel analog audio. The ES9038PRO is the flagship of the ESS PRO series. It sets a new benchmark for audio excellence with its best-in-class 140 dB of dynamic range in a 32-bit, 8-channel DAC. The ES9038PRO SABRE DAC features ESS’ patented 32-bit HyperStreamDAC technology, which is responsible for the outstanding clarity and sound stage.
     
  8. aroney

    aroney Who really gives a...?

    Got a link? :shh:
     
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  9. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    Video output on Oppos has been digital-only since 2013 I believe; no DAC required, just HDMI. What model do you own ?
     
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  10. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    You need to add Cambridge to your list. The 650BD, 651BD, 751BD, 752BD and the last of the line, the CXU are all just as capable and all sound excellent.

    I have the 752BD and there's a number of owners who preferred that to the 105D, including a few reviewers. Many couldn't separate them between the two.

    You'll pay less too and might land a NOS model into the bargain. Buy with confidence if you get one. I've had my 752BD for five years now and it's still an absolute winner. It's in daily use with a pair of AVI ADM 9RSS actives.
     
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  11. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    Of course it is possible I misinterpreted what the Oppo Engineer said, but even more likely I have simply forgotten WHAT he said. So, no I cannot quote his words from memory, nor can I find the article again without an extremely intensive google search again.

    I can only tell you, that according to a statement that the Oppo engineer told the reporter, there was a serious trade-off that Oppo had to make in order to improve video, and that it had something to do with the implementation of the DACs, which caused sound quality to suffer. It was clear enough to me AT THE TIME, that I decided the 95 might be best for me. I listened to both, and found the sound of the 95 no worse than the 105 (maybe or maybe not better), so a combination of what I understood AT THE TIME plus what I heard myself, convinced me that there was no reason FOR ME to pay extra money for a used 105 compared to a used 95.

    If you don't mind me saying so, I have great confidence in my intelligence, and my training/experience as a design engineer, so I consider it unlikely that I misinterpreted anything he said in that article. I have designed consumer products myself, and found many times that trade-offs have to be made. Engineers often have to go to management and ask, which trade-offs better align with their ideas of how they want the applicable technology to be implemented. They usually hate the way engineers think this way, with an answer like, "why can't you just make EVERYTHING about it better?"

    If you don't want to believe me, because you DID spend more money for a 105, or you DO hear an improvement in the 105's sound, or because you cannot believe a product can ever get worse in some way when it is redesigned and marketed as "improved", that's fine. I am happy if you are happy.

    I will try to find that article and quote it exactly, so that anyone interested can explain what I misinterpreted. No offense taken. I just REALLY like my two 95s, and I didn't care for the 105 anymore than I do for the 95, when compared side-by-side.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
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  12. wolfyboy3

    wolfyboy3 99 Red Balloons Go By...

    Location:
    Indiana
    @PB Point I hope you already have a good library of discs....
     
  13. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Once again I mean no offense. But if you've forgotten what the Oppo engineer said then why are you posting what you did about the Oppo 105 and 205? You are mistaken in regard to the DACs in the 105 and 205 having anything to do with video conversion. I showed that in black and white with the information from the Oppo site regarding the 205's DACs.

    What I believe or don't believe has nothing to do with what I spent for the 105 or 205. I'm not an engineer but it didn't take much effort to find information showing that the DACs in the 205 have nothing to do with video conversion. In all honesty you're just flat out wrong in that assumption. I'd say the 105 is the same.
     
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  14. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    Because I am sure I am not mistaken, and I have not made any "assumption". It is you who is mistaken for thinking I am an idiot and getting personal about it. Where did you get your Oppo design degree, that gives you the right to claim anything about the design of an Oppo beyond their advertising? And, yes, now I am offended. You don't even know how engineers redesign products in the real world of consumer electronics, and then how marketing writers make claims without even consulting the engineers. I have direct experience.

    When, in this thread, did we start getting personal about our opinions and experiences with the various models of Oppo?

    Please wait for me to quote the words from that interview, and THEN interpret who is what, and which Oppo is how.

    Here, let me just let loose of my frustration here: :cussing::blah:
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
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  15. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Below is from a thread here in which shows technical information between the DAC implementation in the 95 and 105. The below Q and A is from a FAQ that was on the Oppo site. Not one single reference to video in the information provided below.

    Q: On the BDP-95 the ESS9018 DAC was stacked 4-DAC channels per stereo Left and Right outputs channel. How are they configured on the BDP-105?

    A: In the BDP-105's stereo board design, the 4 pairs of DACs in the ESS9018 DAC are allocated as: 1 pair for the RCA outputs, 1 pair for the XLR outputs, and 2 pairs stacked for the headphone amplifier.

    Q: Does the lack of non-4+4 DAC stacking affect the audio performance?

    A: During the initial design stage, OPPO simply continued the BDP-95 approach by stacking 4 pairs of DAC for each Left and Right channel. However due to the complexity brought in by the newly added headphone amp and USB DAC, OPPO could not achieve an ideal PCB layout. The analog specifications became slightly worse than the BDP-95 in this 4 stacked configuration. OPPO's audio engineers and consultants analyzed the problem and made many experiments to further enhance the quality of the analog output stage of the BDP-105. In the end, they decided that the only way to ensure maximum performance was to separate the current-to-voltage conversion stages for each output path. This change enables us to have a much cleaner PCB layout which minimizes interference and crosstalk. It also eliminates the possibility of the load on one output path affecting the other paths. The drawback is that BDP-105 now loses the benefits of the thermal noise cancellation by stacking 4 DACs. The engineers were able to make up for that by designing an improved power supply, optimizing the filter and drive stages, and beefing up the power and ground paths."


    Oppo BDP-95 vs. BDP-105 — Sound Quality Comparison?
     
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  16. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    This is not the article I read, but another explanation that I just found:

    "The same designer also contributed to the BDP-105’s analog audio section. The BDP-105 is said to retain the BDP-95’s very detailed and accurate sound, and the performance measurements are almost identical to the BDP-95. The BDP-105 uses the same dual ES9018 Sabre32 Reference DAC chips as the BDP-95. In the BDP-95, they ganged the 4 pairs of the stereo DAC outputs to increase the current output. The higher current output enabled them to use a smaller current to voltage conversion resistor, and a smaller resistor has less thermal noise than a larger resistor. In the BDP-105, Oppo initially tried to use the same ganged DAC outputs design, but found that the performance became worse. The additional USB DAC, coaxial, optical input and headphone output made it impossible to design an optimized PCB layout if they continued to stack the DAC channels. The suboptimal layout was the cause of the degraded performance. After many attempts and revisions, Oppo decided to no longer stack the DAC channels. The new design assigns one pair of DACs for the RCA output, one pair for the XLR, and two pairs stacked for the headphone amplifier. The new configuration allowed Oppo to create a clean layout that minimized the interference and crosstalk." --by Gene DellaSala — March 06, 2015, Audioholics, A/V online magazine
     
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  17. BayouTiger

    BayouTiger Forum Resident

    If you don’t care about 4k (and titles are so scarce and pricey that it’s possible) then i would look for a 105. Especially f you are diving deep into SACD. The 103/105 had the ability to easily rip SACD to a thumbdrive - something that the 203/205 does not seem cabable of. Otherwise i like my 203 better than my previous 105 or 95. Since i really dont care about Multichannel the extra cash was really wasted.

    if you don’t care about the bluray side, Pioneer made some great SACD capable DVD players in years past. I think it was the 563 that i had and it was flawless when used with an external DAC.
     
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  18. GLYNSTYLER

    GLYNSTYLER Forum Resident

    Location:
    NEW ORLEANS
    I own a -95 and a -205. My best friend owns a -105. In my opinion, the -105 and -205 sound similar with a deeper, richer more analog tone. The -95 sounds great too, but with a trebly, thinner sound. It all depends on what you like, and I like them all.
     
  19. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    Since its introduction, I enjoyed an Oppo 83SE, which I used to play CDs, DVDs, DVD-As, SACDs, and anything else I could throw at it, mono, stereo, and multichannel. I loved its versatility and sound quality. Last year, I was fortunate to have the opportunity to buy one of the last 205s from Oppo, and did so to try it, satisfy myself that it was no better than my 83SE, and put it back in its box, reselling it for an indecent profit. I never got around to those last steps. It's that good.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
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  20. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    Yes, thank you for finding it, this is the one I read. I told you, I simply forgot the technical details. So you see that we can only listen to half the dual DACs from a 105, but all 4 DACs from a 95. Then, in order to not seem like a compromise, see what statements the engineer added to make it all just jiffy? Only an idiot would fall for this double-speak. The sound was definitely compromised, but at least the PCB path was cleaner.

    So now, do you really still want to hassle me about my interpretation that sound was compromised, for one reason or another? Or can you accept my opinion as simply an opinion which of course you are welcome to not share.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
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  21. heyMo

    heyMo Forum Resident

    Location:
    LKN west, NC
    I have the CA CXUHD which has compared favorably to the Oppo 203 (according to the reviews) and it has been an excellent performer. No complaints. However, we use it pretty much for movies only. Retails for about $800.
     
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  22. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I hate to burst your bubble but the design of the 105 was not compromised. I owned the 95 and still own a 105 and 205. I did direct comparisons between the 95 and 105. I found that I preferred the SQ of the 105. I respect the fact that you prefer the SQ of the 95 over the 105.

    My issue with what you have posted is not that you prefer the SQ of the 95 over the 105. My issue is that you say the DACs
    which is totally false. The DACs in the 105 and 205 have absolutely nothing to do with video section of either player. But you don't want to seem to admit that you wrong when you made that statement. You also claim that the design of the 105 and the 205 are compromised. Which again is totally false.

    Then you claim that the explanation by Oppo engineers is "double speak". I would think that you as an engineer would be inclined to see that a change in design or implementation does not necessarily indicate a compromise. The 105 and 205 have been reviewed professionally in a number of different publications. All one needs to do is a simple Google search to find the many reviews. I never read a single review that stated the design of the 105 or the 205 were compromised when compared to the 95. If the DAC implementations of the 105 or the 205 were compromised that fact would have been found long ago.

    The fact that you prefer the SQ of the 95 over the 105 does not in any way shape or form mean that the design of the 105 is compromised. It just means that you have a preference for the SQ of the 95. Which is cool with me :).
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
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  23. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    That's their last model and I didn't list it as it's a transport only unit, so it needs to go to an AV amp to get the audio features. Have to say I thought this a mistake on Cambridge part.
     
  24. Warren Jarrett

    Warren Jarrett Audio Note (UK) dealer in SoCal/LA-OC In Memoriam

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    What do you mean I don't admit making a mistake? I forgot the technical details of what I had read. I already stated this. So, yes, I WAS MISTAKEN in remembering it had something to do with the video. The reason we cannot hear all 4 DACs at once, from a 105 or 205, is because of "the newly added headphone amp and USB DAC". Now this is the concept that I wish you would admit: These newly added features, which undoubtedly were added by demands from Marketing, meant that after the 95, we don't get to hear all 4 DACs working together at once. That sounds to me like some sonic compromises had to be made. And that seems to be what I can hear, through my $95,000 amplifiers and $25,000 speakers.

    You obviously don't know anything about being a consumer products design engineer. I do. So what you are is simply a "know-it-all". And here I am again, totally insulted by your idiotic commentary. You may certainly have the last work about this, because I am not going to read any more posts from you nor answer another one.

    By the way, looking at your profile, you are doing multi-channel. I am doing extremely high-end stereo. Of course we have completely different sonic goals. Even the features we require to accomplish our audio and video goals are totally different. Me not remembering a technical detail seems to me a very minor point, but let me repeat: YES, I MADE A MISTAKE.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
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  25. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    You are correct in that you did state that you forgot the technical details of the information of the 105 and 205 design. My apologies for that.

    But with that I never resorted to calling you an "idiot" or any other insulting terms. I would think that being a consumer products design engineer as yourself you would know that DACs in a universal player such as the 105 and 205 have no correlation to video. So to me that is not a "very minor point".

    If you looked at my profile you would have seen that I also value two channel sound as well. So I'm not just doing multichannel. I have a Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE analog preamp and Marantz SA-10 CD/SACD player. My system certainly doesn't have $95,000 amps or $25,000 speakers. But I feel the system does sound pretty good especially CD and SACD (stereo) playback with the SA-10.
     
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