Can you guys really hear huge differences In DACs?

How many digital devices does the average audiophile have? I've only got one for serious listening, and most won't have more than two (streaming & disc), I wouldn't think. Number of inputs didn't even come into the equation with my choice, just the right one.

 

I upgraded from a Schiit Gungnir MB (around $1300) to a Benchmark DAC3 ($2200). Neither was really all that expensive, especially when compared to DACs in the $4K-$20K+ range. The DAC3 kills it with my system, but admittedly, it is a part of a superb Benchmark preamp/HPA and mono stack.

 

You are likely starting off from some very nice equipment. I didn't really have any awareness of what a DAC was before I joined this forum and was running an internal from a Denon AVR from 2007 and/or an internal from a Panasonic Blu-ray player. The addition of my current DAC was a very big deal when it happened. Yes, the additional gain is a part of it but there is much more going on. I bought a new Cambridge player last year and the difference between that and my external is much less pronounced.

 

I have:
TWO 300 CD carousels.
A digital AM/FM radio tuner that outputs SPDIF.
A computer I use to get Youtube music and internet stuff like Spotify.
An input to run my mixdown recording board for doing audio comparison to see if my own home recordings sound like the big boys.
A music server with outboard hard drives holding my CD collection that I put here for backup.
A CD/SACD single disc player that either runs analog or digital depending on source. Handy player even for CD spinning of one disc when I grab a disc laying around and don't want to load it into my carousels.
How many is THAT?
PLUS it is odd but different digital inputs SOUND different.
Coax digital USUALLY sounds better than optical.
So unless you want to use a $10 "convertor" to change from coax to optical or vice versa you better hope you have enough of the TYPE of inputs you need for your gear.
Those cheap $10 convertors are just dandy for saving the day but it is always nice to plug in with fewer cables even if you can't hear the difference using a convertor box.
It is just more tidy to have the right input in the first place.

 

Being mostly a vinyl guy, I have limited experience with hifi DACs. However, after decades of recording music on analog tape and digital formats, I can say with certainty there is a huge difference between analog-to-digital converters. Stated differently, I can hear ProTools converters every time. Not a big fan. TC Electronics makes great ADCs, but my favorite are those from Radar.

 

This is a key point. DyersEve726 has a Hint, with a top of the line ESS Saber DAC. I have an older Peachtree iNova, with an older top of the line ESS DAC.

I mostly can not tell the difference between DAC's.

But, I am getting that there is something different and special, when you step up to a higher end stand alone DAC.

DyersEve726's ANK DAC costs about as much as his Hint did.

I was considering either and ANK external DAC or a Border Patrol ladder DAC to use with my Oppo UDP-203 player, which I use as a transport.

This was going to be my final attempt to make more of the CD's that I have in my collection less bright and more listenable (read, more natural and analog sounding).

Consider the price tag on the PS Audio DAC's and they should sound noticeably better, than the less expensive DAC chips that are built in the various integrated's.

 

What I’m understanding is that it’s more of a preamp thing than the actual conversion in standalone DACs?

 

the difference between a 300$ dac and 2000$ can be obvious. i had the yggydrassil (2.2k) and the modi multibit (300$). obvious upgrade.

I would not pay more then 2-3k for a dac, even then that would be pushing it. my source setup now is a mutec mc3+ (750$) as a source to EC designs mosaic T (700 euro). I'm likely good for 5 years.

 

I use my Parasound Halo DAC too. I'm afraid to put big money in a DAC and end up with too little a difference. I wanted my digital to sound as strong as my vinyl but I'm not sure if that is possible or how much in a DAC that would cost. If only I could try one in my system but couldn't find a way yet.

 

A lot of folks don't bother to level match when doing a/b comparisons, if they do such at all. Level-matched, my $120 Topping sounds nearly identical to my ($1800 retail) LM-502CA - in SS mode. Can't say the same for my experience with phono preamps, or stereo amplifiers.
It's important to note that I'm referring to modern SS designs, not a tube buffer DAC or NOS/unfiltered DACs that produce terrible measurements. Such DACs are colored as should be expected, not unlike a tube amp. I'm not surprised one can hear huge differences comparing an AN to an ESS Sabre DAC. It's like saying an apple tastes different from an orange.

 

Speakers, cartridges, pre-amps are closer to the source medium. DAC's grease the "chain", but it is more subtle.

 

Ya, the "difference" you may like is the flavor you like better.

 

It also depends on how old your CD player is as DACs have improved immensely over the years. As an example, the Denon 3910 which was rated Class A about 15 years ago sounded good when I first bought it in 2005 and I was pleased with its sound. I connected my Cary 200TS DAC to the digital output of 3910 and the difference was like night and day - it simply blew the 3910 into the weeds - the music and musician were bigger and the soundstage increased dramatically. Also a lot more warmth and more 3D like - I was now a part of the music and not an onlooker.

People who say DACs don't matter or that they all sound the same are deaf or their audio system doesn't have enough detail to hear the difference.

 

No, it's the DACs. When you start talking about preamps that is like comparing apples to oranges. Of course my Audio Research Ref 3 adds to the sound but you need to compare DACs to DACs and leave out everything else.

Put another way, your entire audio system effects what music sounds like including analog and digital.

 

This guy did a blind test. Just sayin.

 

Doing a blind test on just two DACs with one guy on one system and making the conclusion that the DAC doesn't matter is absurd. I'd have been alright with his video had he simply said "I can't tell the difference between these two dacs" rather than "expensive dacs do not give you better sound quality". This discounts hundreds of products this guy has never even heard before.

 

If you are talking about the Topping D30 D/A converter I agree with you. I have it, I use it, listen to it and I like it a lot. It just converts 1's and 0's to music, it has no benchmark sound, no personality, it's pure neutral which is how a D/A converter should work. It's a real bargain for the price that can outperform much more expensive converters, but if you are looking for a converter "with a sound", a personality, you should look somewhere else.
By the way, a friend of mine recently got the more expensive Topping D50 and even changing the digital filters it sounds just like its cheaper brother the D30, neutral, with no personality, none of these seem to get in the way of music which I see as a good thing, the only audible difference on both converters is when one changes from red book resolution to Hi Res files and DSD files, the increased resolution on both kind of files do show up and make the D30 and D50 sound better.

 

Well, my computer is the primary and it feeds the USB input.

My analog Levinson preamp now feeds the unbalanced analog input. It remains hooked up to the same downstream components it used to be hooked up to.

I have a set of XLR cables that go to the 2nd analog inputs but they're balanced. They can connect the analog output of the OPPO, or I can plug it into several XLR adapters and cables to connect to rca outputs or a 3.5mm stereo output. I have them out in front so I can easily hook up anything balanced or unbalanced that I bring in. That makes it easy to listen to and compare various usb dac's.

I have the tosslink from my TV, which is also a monitor for the computer, going to the tosslink input.

The OPPO 205 feeds the spdif input

I still have a few digital inputs that I'm not using at the moment.

The beauty of this is that I can trim the levels of each of the inputs to make easier comparisons. The wired remote sits in the sweet spot and allows for instant switching and .5db level adjustments with a large knob as well as some other cool monitoring functions.

I don't think too many audiophiles go for pieces like this which are more designed for studio use, but it's hard to do better, and many high end consumer pieces are more expensive. You can even get a high end phono preamp in place of the unbalanced audio input.

m905 reference monitor controller

 

I would say that the answer varies widely depending upon which DACs which you happen to be comparing, as well as the resolution of your system.

In this regard, I would say that the sonic differences between the majority of high-quality DACs are relatively small. But the differences between some DACs can be huge.

Where the variations tends to get much more significant is in the cases of the more exotic types of designs, such as the pure DSD DACs, or the NOS DACs or the tube output DACSs or the FPGA implemented DACs. These units can all sound quite different from your typical chip-based dac.

FWIW: My PS Audio direct Stream DAC sounds simply amazing. It's both the most expensive purchase I ever made for my system, as well as one of the most significant upgrades I've made in years.

 

Damn, Doug.
Leave it to you to have something insanely pro like that.
What a nice design.

 

Yeah but isn’t the PS Audio more of a preamp which you are hearing? Not the actual conversion?

Thanks

 

I think you've misconstrued what someone said. I assume you're speaking of the quality of the analog output section of the DAC? How is this any less important than the conversion? It all comes into play. You can have the best DAC in the world, but a garbage analog board will doom it. As for the PS Audio, from what I've read, it's a modern marvel as far as the actual converter goes, so I think it's a far cry to say you're only hearing a quality analog board.

 

I find the difference comes out more the longer I listen. The Oppo implementation in my 95 and 105 sounded great in a short session, but was less involving over time than my Gumby or even my lowly DacMagic 100. I used to attribute it to the ESS SabreDAC, but my Peachtree uses a Sabre32 and sound great for hours on end. Same for the Pono Player.

On the high end, I’ve had the chance to listen to the DAC on the ARC Reference CD and it is just plain stunning. Every bit as good as the best analog I’ve heard.

 

Absolutely not. It uses a proprietary FPGA to implement a pure 20x passive DSD conversion to analog. And there is no active analog output stage on this DAC at all. There are only a handful of passive parts, including some output transformers which perform the passive conversion of the 20x DSD signal to analog. The FPGA up-samples all of the input data to 20x DSD, regardless of the type of digital signal which is presented to it.

So this is very different from most designs which feature (by necessity) active analog output stages (of widely varying quality).

 

?
metrum dac measure well, ec designs dac as well. Nos design doesnt equal coloured at all


I bet you never even owned a NOS R2R DAC in your system. it was actually more transparent, fluid and uncoloured then the Yggdrasil dac in my system.