Can you hear the "directionality" of interconnects and speaker wire? Kevin LaTour can.

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Steve Hoffman, Dec 24, 2004.

  1. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    It does not say it is purely random, and I would think they follow a convention based on the direction the wire is drawn more than likely, when they print arrows (even though I dont think it matters), but who knows, maybe the printing of arrows is random?
     
  2. wgb113

    wgb113 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chester County, PA
    Purely random.
     
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  3. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    I just read the OP and am not that surprised. I think hearing ability falls under a bell curve distribution and there will be a few with "insane" hearing abilities and that there is something causing differences in sound when cables are reversed. Probably has to do with shielding or that despite there not being a change in the change in the electromagnetic field (which I seeeriously doubt and feel would need to happen to change sound) due to metallurgical grain orientatation when cables are reversed (could be something else:confused: but AQs theory would boil down to this IMHO), a change in sound is nevertheless produced when cables are reversed. :confused:
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2021
  4. big_pink_floyd_toole

    big_pink_floyd_toole I am not a bat

    Location:
    USA
    Not probably. Literally the only way.
     
  5. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    That's what Im nearly for certain thinking, but I always try to leave a little "wiggle room" and say "probably" or "might", etc. AQ and I disagree on many aspects of cables. :)
     
    Hardcore likes this.
  6. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    [​IMG]

    But the definitive empirical evidence of directionality demands seeking a scientific explanation. What is the technical explanation for directionality?

    In order to fabricate copper or silver into a strand or conductor, it must first be cast and then drawn through a die—a process that inevitably creates a directional, chevron-like pattern in the conductor’s internal grain structure and a non-symmetrical overlay of grains at the conductor’s surface.

    While most are either unaware of conductor directionality or have chosen to ignore it, we have learned to use conductor directionality to our advantage.

    A conductor’s asymmetrical surface structure causes a directional difference in impedance at noise frequencies and very high interference frequencies. Due to skin-effect, such high-frequency energy travels almost exclusively on the surface of a conductor, giving significance to the directional difference in impedance at these frequencies. Because all energy will always take the path of least resistance, when a cable is oriented so that the high-frequency noise—whether from a computer, radio station, cell tower, etc.—is “directed” to ground, or to the end of the cable attached to less vulnerable equipment, the dynamic intermodulation and associated ringing generated in the active electronics will be greatly reduced.

    Our efforts toward the proper dissipation of noise are not limited to our analog and digital cables, but extend to other AudioQuest products, as well—most recently evidenced in our Niagara 1000 and 7000 Low-Z Power Noise-Dissipation Systems, in which every single link in the conducting path has been properly controlled for low-noise directionality.

    As always, the proof is in the listening.

    The unpleasant, strained sound that occurs when conductors have the wrong orientation is the result of noise entering and causing misbehavior and intermodulation in an active circuit. The more relaxed, full-bodied sound of correctly oriented conductors is the product of less high-frequency interference—conductor directionality fully acknowledged and put to its best use!
     
    TheVinylAddict likes this.
  7. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    You have inspired me to give it a try......
     
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  8. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict ___The Enforcer___

    Thanks for the laugh.... :laugh:

    Now I'm checking back in for sure!
     
  9. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Going with the flow...

    Location:
    PA
    Wire it is not drawn(pulled), therefor not 'stretched'.

    The dies are configured to allow laminar flow, even velocity, no friction or drag, the Cu is close to liquid, very soft. Die making is an art, much like in the glass industry.

    It is heated to homogeneity and extruded (pushed). Then reheated to close to melting point and quenched (annealing). This makes it malleable and homogenous. Do cable makers inspect it with electron microscopes? Because the manufacturers don't mark it.

    You are assuming there is a difference and looking for a reason. I assume there is no difference in the material.

    Wire used in bi-directional communication networks use the same conductor in both directions. Power lines transmit power in both directions depending on load. The losses and distortion are identical and load dependent.
    At 345 kV and 1000's of amps it would be noticed in losses.

    It's up to the listener. You can contact this group, PM if you want a contact. You can ask them. I don't know, but I believe it doesn't matter. Shielding connections? Yes, imo they can make a difference in SNR.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. big_pink_floyd_toole

    big_pink_floyd_toole I am not a bat

    Location:
    USA
    Skin effect has zero bearing on audible frequencies.

    Cable directionality on single-ended shielded cable exists due to shielding termination on one side only.

    There is zero “directionality” on unshielded cable. If there were, it would be measurable. And it isn’t.
     
  11. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    I bet Kevin could tell you. :p:uhhuh::)
     
  12. big_pink_floyd_toole

    big_pink_floyd_toole I am not a bat

    Location:
    USA
    Lol!
     
    Ilusndweller likes this.
  13. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Do you agree or disagree?

    :uhhuh: or :unhunh:? :confused:

    Maybe Steve (or someone who read the whole thread) will have an answer for us, I only read the OP.

    I know, crazy question, buy my enquiry mind would like to know. I would say almost for certain (99.720%) they were shielded on one end.
     
  14. big_pink_floyd_toole

    big_pink_floyd_toole I am not a bat

    Location:
    USA
    It’s not contempt. It’s one part profitability, one part customer service (giving the customer what they want), one part psychology. In these cases, the customer ends up very satisfied bc that’s how the human brain works.
     
  15. big_pink_floyd_toole

    big_pink_floyd_toole I am not a bat

    Location:
    USA
    Unshielded? No, I do not agree. JMO of someone I’ve never met, for whatever that is worth (very little…)
     
  16. rpd

    rpd Senior Member

    Location:
    Nashville
    Complete snake oil. Just ridiculous
     
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  17. rpd

    rpd Senior Member

    Location:
    Nashville
    Careful :)
     
  18. big_pink_floyd_toole

    big_pink_floyd_toole I am not a bat

    Location:
    USA
    Well, if they charge reasonable prices or make a reasonable profit, I dont see an issue.

    If they market Belden for $500/ft, yea, absurd. But a fool and his money…
     
  19. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    more food for thought (or lack there of)

    How can cables be directional?


    When cables are manufactured they do not have any directionality. However, as they break in, they acquire directionality.
    Although the cable signal is an alternating current, small impurities in the conductor act as diodes allowing signal flow to be better in one direction over time. This effect is also called quantum tunneling, which has been observed in experiments over 25 years ago. Regardless of the purity of the metal used, there are still diode effects in all conductors. In addition, the insulation material will change when it is subjected to an electrical field.
     
  20. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Not my experience. It was quite easy to improve the sound of my system with other (some expensive, some not) vs. the Belden which was a disappointment considering all the favorable recommendations.
     
  21. big_pink_floyd_toole

    big_pink_floyd_toole I am not a bat

    Location:
    USA
    Shielded: Purist Audio Design Dominus - Luminist Interconnect
     
  22. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
  23. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Going with the flow...

    Location:
    PA
  24. big_pink_floyd_toole

    big_pink_floyd_toole I am not a bat

    Location:
    USA
    This is an important point. It’s not a monetary thing. It’s a manufacturing process thing.
     
  25. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    People also interpret sound differently, there is system synergy, etc. People disagree over cable preferences all the time.
     

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