Can you recommend a good amp/receiver upgrade?

I feel like I'm chasing one problem after another, so I'm asking for help again. I recently upgraded to the AT ART9 (MC) cartridge and I love it. At least I'm 99% certain I love it, because I don't think it's responsible for the distortion that I'm now experiencing. At least I hope.

I've got it at around 1.84 grams and used a Baerwald protractor to align it, and if I don't have it spot on, it's pretty darn close. I can tell you that I experience no noticeable inner groove distortion on clean records. That said, on the loudest portions of most records - noticeable in the high frequencies - I am getting distortion, and it is mostly from the left speaker. This even occurs on brand new records. I do play my music loud, but the distortion still seems apparent when I turn it down to conversational levels. I have swapped the outputs on my preamp (left to right and vice versa) and it seems to me that the distortion remained in the left speaker (I need to test this more) which suggests a problem with my amp or speakers. As I do not receive this distortion when playing digital sources through the same speakers, I am assuming the issue is with my old receiver (which does have other problems).

The sound I'm hearing sounds like the speakers (KEF Q900s) are being overdriven, i.e. that the output from either the cart or preamp is too high. It does not sound like what I normally associate with groove wear. It is not vibration from an outside source -- I can tell it's coming from the speaker itself.

Can you folks suggest a good replacement amp/receiver that will suit my equipment? I have an Opera Consonance PM-6 phono preamp that nobody seems to have heard of (manual found here: http://www.opera-consonance.com/products/PDF/manual/manual for PM-6.pdf ) and a Sony STR-DE997 receiver, which is just one of those things I picked up at Best Buy over 10 years ago. Oh, my phono preamp is not connected to the Phono input on the receiver - it is connected to one of the Video inputs.

If it makes sense that my amp or the combination would cause this overdriven effect, please help me find one that should work really well for me. Around $1000 would be doable, but cheaper would certainly be welcome if possible. The only trick is that I also need it to have audio inputs for my Oppo BDP-83 (I've just been using the analog outs).

I'm going to do more tests and make sure that the problem really doesn't seem to be the cartridge mistracking, but I'd like to start looking into my options if that's the route I have to go.

And then maybe, just maybe, I can stop upgrading for a while....

 

- This started happening right when you changed the cartridge? What happens if you put the old cartridge back on, is there still the distortion?
- This happens at various volume levels? Or only when cranked?
- What if you unplug the phono pre from the Video input and plug into a different input?
- If you bypass your phono pre and plug into the phono input of your amp, is the distortion still there?
- Does it stay in the left channel if you swap the RCAs? What if you swap the speakers themselves?
- Consider buying some cheap receiver on Craigslist to experiment with if needed.

As for another receiver (5.1??) and "The only trick is that I also need it to have audio inputs for my Oppo BDP-83 (I've just been using the analog outs)" I am not clear what you mean by that-you want a new amp to have what? Optic in? Coax? HDMI? Multichannel analog inputs?

 

I love this "doctor approach"!

 

Do you experience this problem when using your Oppo?

 

Yes, this was only noticeable after installing the new cart. But the previous cart was a MM, and the output volume is noticeably louder when I installed the MC. The preamp has dedicated inputs for each.

It is certainly harder to detect the distortion when I turn down the amp to quieter levels, but I do believe I am still hearing it.

There are good suggestions here that I should and will try tonight or tomorrow and report back. I have a tendency to jump ahead a few steps to get the result I want faster, admittedly. Mostly because the more time I spent hearing the problem, the more it annoys me.

As for connecting the Oppo, I should have specified. I only use stereo analog outs (RCA). I don't have a multichannel setup and don't need it for this room. I haven't used HDMI or optical outputs on the Oppo but certainly could. So I suppose I only really *need* something that has multiple RCA stereo inputs.

But let me see what further tests tell me.

 

I most certainly had not or I would have thrown the receiver away long ago, but I'm going to crank a couple of Blu-rays up again just to be sure the issue hasn't cropped up since I last played something on that.

One thing I do know about the receiver is that I get a nasty hum out of several inputs before it warms up, so I usually have to leave it turned on for 10 minutes before I play anything on it. So I immediately suspected that as the culprit once I swapped the outputs on the preamp and heard the distortion continue in the same channel. But as head_unit essentially suggests above, I should really be 100% sure before throwing more money away.

 

Scientific method/good engineering troubleshooting: change ONE thing at a time. Otherwise you're not sure what is/isn't making a difference. As for changing from MM to MC, your preamp has separate inputs, but do they have any way of adjusting optimum loading for particular cartridges? If you asked the preamp maker about your problem, I wonder if they would reply.

 

When I was young, I loved "playing doctor"

 

I hope the patient isn't who's shown in your avatar!

 

Wow, I didn't realize that the online manual is only 3 pages. If there are any switches for that, they are internal, but I'm pretty positive there are not. When I first bought it and the Q900s, the dealer started talking impedance matching to me and my head spun. So he told me he was going to sell me a preamp that would just work with whatever I've got. Made sense then, but I think I'm outgrowing the "simple" solution.

I'm still in the process of troubleshooting the issue, but here's more observations both for my own records (if you'll pardon the pun) and for anyone interested.

For reference, max volume on my receiver is at number 073. I have typically been listening to records at around 64 or 65 with this cart (the previous MM cart required that I turn up to around 69 or 70 for a similarly loud but still clear sound).

Despite what I said earlier, the distortion gets worse with more volume. This is consistent when using the speakers or headphones (Direct Sound EX29) connected to the receiver. My headphone tests are confusing me so far because I am hearing the distortion on both channels though those, not the just left as I am hearing through the speakers.

I played the new Jethro Tull Stormwatch Blu-ray on the Oppo last night at volume 061 and it sounded great, except for two brief passages where I heard the same exact distortion on the flute. As a test, I turned up the volume to an uncomfortable 068 and there was the familiar, annoying distortion I'm trying to eliminate. So I would conclude the problem IS there when using the Oppo through a different input on the receiver but perhaps is not as noticeable because I'm not turning up the volume so high on the receiver.

To give you an idea what I'm hearing, imagine connecting a distortion pedal somewhere along the signal path and clicking it on and off only during the absolute loudest peaks. Got a record that's cut especially hot? More distortion throughout. No issue with lower level recordings. This can happen on the outer or inner grooves of records.

Your response might be "Of course you're going to get distortion! You've got that thing turned up nearly to max!" But if my phone is to be believed, a comfortably loud listening level for me is around 75 db.

I'll play with it a little more tonight, but I'm trying not to spend too much time at any one sitting figuring this out. Because the more I hear and obsess over this issue, the less I'm going to enjoy just listening to the music. That said, there's enough money put into this so far that I know I should be hearing better than what I am.

 

Hi. I'm new here. Just joined. So feel free to discount any of my comments.

This summer, I just got a Sumiko Moving Coil cartridge. But it was labeled as high output. My previous cart was Ortofone Red.

What it sounds like to me is that your combination of MC cart and MC preamp are very hot coming into the receiver.

Try swapping the inputs to the Moving Magnet inputs. See if that improves your headroom.

 

No discounting here. Welcome to the forum! Anyway, I appreciate the suggestion as I never would have thought to try that.

Mine is a low output cart, so playing it through the MM channel provided a high enough output to test, but too low of an output to listen to regularly. I played three problematic tracks on two different records multiple times both ways (through the MC inputs and the MM inputs), so I'm certain of my findings.

On one record - a brand new copy of the Varese Sarabande reissue of The Zombies' Odyssey and Oracle - there are two problematic tracks where the piano and mellotron distort. I do NOT hear this distortion when I play these through the MM outputs. This to me suggests that you're absolutely right -- the signal is likely too hot coming in to the receiver. Or my receiver and speakers are not well-matched, if that's a possibility. It does not suggest a tracking issue with the cart to me. Incidentally, I swapped the outputs and found that the distortion through the MC input moved to whatever speaker the problematic instrument was in, so my original impression that it was only in the left speaker is simply wrong.

On a second record - the original Varese Sarabande pressing of the Phantasm soundtrack (which is on the TAS list, so I figure it should sound perfect on a good system), there is one track that is clearly cut hot, and it distorts severely on both of my two clean copies. Playing that through the MM output still exhibits the distortion. My impression is that it is less extreme this way, but it is certainly there. I'm thinking that's a tracking issue which is compounded by the problem described above.

So with these findings, I am inclined to think that my equipment isn't likely well-matched. Keeping in mind that the distortion can be heard a little bit with Blu-rays, that would point me to the receiver/speaker combo rather than the preamp/receiver combo. My ears are open if others think my logic is flawed, however.

If I'm on the right track, what I don't understand is how to go about getting the right matching receiver for the AT-ART9 cart, Consonance PM-6 preamp and KEF Q900 speakers. I don't know exactly what specs to look for and how to match them, so all insight is appreciated.

 

If you explain this to the phono pre dealer, what do they say about it? If it's running really hot, maybe it is overloading the inputs of your receiver. I don't suppose you have an oscilloscope to connect to that?

 

Oddly enough I do, but I don't know exactly what to look for. How do you all decide what amp/receiver to buy? You can do this simply on published specs, right? With all due respect, I don't really need to be pulling out an oscilloscope here based on the above, do I? Remember, I determined that my Blu-ray is teetering right on the same problem too. Raise the volume just a tad more and I experience the same issue on those inputs as well.

While I'm not looking to throw money away, it sounds to me like I need a receiver that puts out more wattage so I don't have to turn the thing up so high to begin with. But I have to make sure it matches the speakers and preamp well, correct? How do I, or you, do that? Am I simply looking at output and input impedance?

 

Izgoblin. I support your findings. You are getting distortion on the Blu Ray player, and from your vinyl chain - both.

Looking at the specs for the Sony at 110w per channel and the Kef speakers at 91dB sensitivity, I would think that the receiver has enough power to drive the KEF. So (my assumption is) something inside the Sony is distorting the audio as you try to increase volume.

It seems like upgrading your receiver/amp would be a good step.

My suggestion would be to throw out some requirements or preferences.

Are you looking for Stereo only, or is this part of a home theater/TV setup where you would need more speaker taps?

Are you thinking tube or solid state?

Budget is around $1,000 is dollars?

Do you require new or open to used?

What is your listening space? How far are you from your speakers. How much of a room are you trying to fill with sound?

I probably can't help identify any specific equipment, as I'm entrenched in vintage speakers and vintage receivers. But I'm sure someone here can help identify a great integrated amp.

That's actually why I started reading this thread. To see people's suggestions. I'm in the discovery phase right now.

 

Some of my answers would be based on whether I'd be sacrificing sound quality. I'm currently stereo only and use a single subwoofer. Would I like to have a 5.1 option for possible enhancement later? Absolutely!! But not if that means I gotta get a receiver that I could have similar issues with. Sound quality trumps all at this point. I do have plans to move this from my living room to a dedicated listening room in a year or so.

I don't think I need/want an integrated amp. I really only need analog inputs for the phono preamp and the Blu-ray player (for SACD/DVD-A/Blu-ray audio). No need to have HDMI.

I'd think solid state would suit me, though I eventually want to try a preamp that is a mix of tubes and solid state. I like the solid state sound, so I probably should stick with that for now.

My only problem with buying used is I have notoriously terrible luck with technology. Unless I can get it from a trusted seller, I'd worry I'd end up with something that will come with its own problems.

As for "how much of a room I'm trying to fill with sound", I like my music loud, so...

 

I wonder if this JAS GP-120 would be a good fit, but I can't find any other data outside of my local dealer's site.

Quest For Sound - High End Audio

And again, I don't know how to match things wisely given the specs. I can ask the dealer, but I would love to get input from folks who aren't trying to sell me something.

 

If you’re only listening in two channel there’s an immediate upgrade in replacing the Sony with a two channel integrated amp or receiver. It may or may not solve the distortion issue but if you’re getting it on both sources it well could. You should reverse channels on your speaker cables at one end to rule out the speakers as the problem.

 

Maybe an Outlaw RR2160 would suit you well. Plenty of power and its SQ would definitely be an upgrade over what you currently have. It also features 2 subwoofer outputs and has a phono preamp as well which can be useful when troubleshooting. Bass management is also part of the package, therefore eliminating frequencies from the mains which the subwoofer is already taking care of.

Food for thought.

 

Thanks, Strat!

 

D'oh! Forgot to link it.

RR2160 Stereo Receiver

Also didn't mention the price ; $849. They do have B-stock units at $749, though.

B-stock Order Form

It's a lot of amp for the money. Alternatively, the Yamaha line has some really good models as well such as the S-501 and S-801.

 

Izgoblin. Looking at the options posted so far, I'm going to give you a neutral opinion. I could only find two things online about the JAS Audio receiver. Your dealer page and a Stereo Times article from October 2011. The Stereo Times article was her first article after having just gotten back into audio. It was well written, and is a good read.

It also looks like your dealer is also the importer of JAS. If you trust him and really like him, he will be your best source of information. I would see if he can loan you the unit if you are close to him to check it out in your system at home. And see if he has a demo unit on sale or clearance.

Other than that, you may probably need to search very hard for opinions and advice on the JAS.

The other option so far, the Outlaw Audio, looks very nice. I guarantee you can find many reviews and opinions in that. Including the Steve Gutenberg video.

Im sure we will get more suggestions.

 

Hate to break it to you but I have heard IGD plain as day on hotly cut records with that cart. It was mounted a fancy linear tracking air bearing arm, which couldn't help it either. Fact is, those AT MCs do not track and trace tough inner grooves as well as AT's best MMs that come with the ML stylus.

You can try Stevenson alignment, which is better optimized for the inner grooves. You can also try to put some hours on the cart to let it break in, and experiment with various parameters of setup, like VTA, VTF, AS, and Azimuth. If you have some good test records, you can test the cart after break in to make sure it is in spec. You may just eventually run up against the tracking and tracing performance limitations of that cart.

 

What is the gain setting you are using for the cart on your phono preamp? Is that within the range recommended by the cart manufacturer? Too much gain can cause distortion.

 

@izgoblin Even though I've recommended the Outlaw, there is a nice Yamaha AS-501 in the Classifieds at $399, shipping included. Its sound would lean a bit on the warm side which, IMHO, is a good thing, and quality parts are found throughout this design. If you want to save a few hundred dollars to place towards something else, that'd one way to do it. It dishes out 85WPC.

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/yamaha-as-501-silver.923061/

Or stick with the Outlaw RR2160. B-stock units cost $750. Depends on whether that $350 difference is important to you. I have no doubts the Outlaw would sound better than the Yamaha but would it sound almost 50% better? I don't believe it would, making this a bargain, IMHO.