Capitol Records 2-track Reel-to-Reel Tapes, 1957-1958

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. EasterEverywhere

    EasterEverywhere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albuquerque
    Were they different fron the US London classical tapes?
     
  2. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    M-G-M
     
  3. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Which was way ahead of Paramount in the sound department.
     
  4. michael22

    michael22 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Knoxville TN
    Decca/UK recordings were released in 4-track format on the London label, duplicated by Ampex. Some of these have excellent sonics and are well worth listening to. Later releases (already duped on Mylar-base tape) were encoded in Dolby B, but that's another thread entirely.
     
  5. michael22

    michael22 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Knoxville TN
    High Society was MGM, but filmed using Paramount's 8-perf VistaVision format. I got to see the 'restored' Gone With the Wind, whose soundtrack was re-recorded using the Perspecta system which tracked the location of the actors' voices on the screen, and applied pseudo-stereo to the musical score. As I recall, it worked quite well.
     
  6. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    MGM, and mono film print, but recorded multitrack and remixed decades later into very nice stereo (including orchestra in full-on stereo), but not for Capitol.
     
  7. Jskoda

    Jskoda Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Yes, MGM's HIGH SOCIETY was finally mixed to true stereo when the DVD was done, and the stereo tracks have finally crept out on various Rhino compilations as well as the SINATRA IN HOLLYWOOD box. The amazing thing I read is that the same guy who would have done the mix for original stereo prints (if there had been any) was still around and did the mix for the DVD.
     
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  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    From another thread, June 6, 2014:
    $_57-12.JPG
    The frustrating part about the assorted CD remixes is that they do not have the "proper" starts and stops that were on the Capitol release, but not in the films themselves, but have awkward cold starts, fade outs, etc.
     
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  9. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

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  10. michael22

    michael22 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Knoxville TN
    i've had a couple of these "Living Stereo" cartridges which were rewound to reels. they sound OK, about what you'd expect from 4-track 3-3/4 ips tapes.
     
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  11. michael22

    michael22 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Knoxville TN
    Neither of these tapes has really great sound. An earlier discussion (on this thread) talked about their origin - early movie soundtracks.
     
  12. michael22

    michael22 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Knoxville TN
    Some of the Z series go for bargain prices. For example, the Toch Symphony No. 3 - one of the best of the Z series - recently went for under $35. Another 'sleeper' is the Gliere Ilya Mourometz. Superlative sound, great Stokowski performance. Again, the quality depends on the particular copy you get. They're not all created equal.
     
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  13. michael22

    michael22 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Knoxville TN
    If you can find one that works, the Ampex "A" series decks sound great. Single motor, belt drive (very finicky), tube electronics, playback head that can physically change position (potential azimuth problems). But a working "A" sounds fantastic, and you can find one for under $100.
     
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  14. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Eh, those AG-300's have way, way too much wow & flutter for me. I much prefer the later AG-440C's, which have a really rock-solid transport. Those are relatively easy to fix, too, provided you can get the parts.
     
  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    AG-440 is a heck of a good-sounding machine.
     
  16. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    michael22 is discussing the Ampex A 121 tape machine here, a consumer line model related more to the 600.
     
  17. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    It only took me three years or so, but I finally checked this out, and yes, the right channel, at least where the centered vocal is concerned, is "ahead" by a miniscule amount, about .0004 seconds (4/10000 of a second). (The Haas effect in practice, basically, probably contributing to the "right heavy" characteristic that you mentioned above.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2015
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  18. rxcory

    rxcory proud jazz band/marching band parent

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    I wonder if that is causing the Norberg-esque phasey-echo effect when I play these samples on my mono system. Does sound beautiful in stereo though, the way this was meant to be heard.
     
  19. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    It's been deduced that is due to issues which occurred during the duplication process. Warp in the reel or something - I can't remember, but it's described upthread. That sound is also present in stereo, though many people can sort of listen around it when played over speakers, as the rest is so good.
     
  20. michael22

    michael22 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Knoxville TN
    There have been several Capitol 2-tracks on ebay lately, going for very reasonable prices. Here's one (not mine) that's about as good as they get
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/351299389907
     
  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    I've been slowly updating my Sinatra-centric website, and now have six "raw" clips from Capitol reel #ZD-17 (Sinatra's Where Are You) and one clip from reel #ZD-21, Stars in Stereo, posted midway down the page here: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1957_-_Where_Are_You_3.html.
    Both reels were released around the first week of January, 1958. The recordings themselves date from April and May, 1957.
     
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  22. michael22

    michael22 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Knoxville TN
    great stuff. thanks for putting this together!
     
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  23. michael22

    michael22 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Knoxville TN
    As I've noted elsewhere, there are variations between copies of 2-track prerecorded tapes. Some sound great, some not-so-great, and some terrible. I've heard multiples of Columbia, Mercury and Omega tapes that, in some cases, sound like entirely different recordings. So what has been said is true: the fanatic audiophile might have to buy several copies of a particular title to get a good one. That could be hard to do. My tape of "Love is the Thing," for example, has a distorted vocal track, but this title is seen so infrequently - and is so expensive - that I've kind of given up on getting a perfect copy.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2015
  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    For the record, I did finally wind up getting a copy of Stars in Stereo that is non-defective, but I'm guessing that over the course of a few years I shelled out at least $200 buying assorted copies. Now that I have one, I think I shall have it bronzed to honor the accomplishment!
     
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  25. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Bronze one of the defective copies, enjoy the good one, sell the rest.
     
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