Capitol versions: Which Beatles records were remixed by Dave Dexter?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by nite flights, Jan 23, 2010.

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  1. edb15

    edb15 Senior Member

    Location:
    new york
    Dave Dexter's job at Capitol in the 1960s was head of the international division. He was responsible for sorting through the tapes of every EMI affiliate and choosing what he thought would sell in the U.S., compiling and annotating the material, etc. He's responsible for the "Capitol of the World" series you see around thrift stores. A nice little profit maker for Capitol--until the Beatles changed things.

    Of course all producers have to go by what they _think_ is the public taste. In this case, Dexter/Capitol engineers thought public taste for rock'n'roll was reverbed, compressed, and hot hot hot. It was.

    It's worth noting that EVERYTHING from EMI got the Capitol Tower reverb added, including Angel classical versions of EMI/Columbia UK material that are considered to be some of the finest sounding record ever. Part of it was a turf thing. Capitol employees needed to demonstrate their value to the company (aka EMI) by maintaining that only they could meet American demands. Otherwise, EMI could just fire them and send metalwork directly to Scranton etc.

    To say Dexter butchered albums' running order--well it's just as artificial to leave the best tracks OFF the LP, as the British did with their singles, as to put them ON. To say he "ruined" anything is patently ridiculous. The Beatles became the biggest stars in the U.S. whose influence is felt to this day. Very very few people failed to appreciate them due to anything Capitol did. If you can't throw on a Dexterized Beatles track and enjoy the tune, well the problem is yours.
     
  2. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Sometimes editing one's own posts can be a disaster. My original post said Martin sequenced all the pre-1968 albums. And I meant to say that the stereo mix of Thank You Girl went unreleased for decades, not a decade. Oh well :shake:. It makes sense that the Beatles wanted some direct input in ALL matters to do with their records, but I seriously doubt they spent THREE days deciding the order whilst touring Germany... if anything Tony Barrow was quite a good storyteller. They wouldn't have known about album side length and all that. This was exactly the type detail they'd quite willingly pass on to others. One of the principle roles as producer, A&R man, that George Martin fulfilled was deciding which songs would end up on an album, which songs would be released as singles and the sequencing of both. I'm sure the Beatles offered up opinion, and as each year passed, often insisted quite vocally on what they wanted, but it was Martin's final decision... at least up until the White Album. Even the lineup for Sgt. Pepper was changed a few times. As late as April 6, 1967, side one would have ended with She's Leaving Home and several other tunes were in different sequence. Ron
     
  3. Hard Panner

    Hard Panner Baroque Popsike & Fuzz

    Same here. "I Want To Hold Your Hand" is one that I prefer to the UK version, though, as you said, it's nice to have both.

    Ditto for me on 'Rubber Soul'. And it was the US version of 'Rubber Soul' that inspired Brian Wilson to make 'Pet Sounds'.
     
  4. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    It *is* nice to have both, and I welcome both the Capitol Albums series as well as the remasters, as I now have access to both the UK versions and the US versions (save for some missing from a hopefully forthcoming Captiol Albums Volume 3) - both stereo and mono too.

    We all have our preferences, and thankfully aren't forced to only hear these one way.

    Harry
     
  5. Christer

    Christer Can You Hear The Music?

    Location:
    Stockholm Sweden
    Dave Marsh

    Yes I have read Daves book. He has a whole chapter callled 'The Man Who Hated The Beatles" about Dave Dexter. I would not call him a fan of Dave Dexter.

    But the best thing with this book is not the parts about Dave Dexter, but the way Dave Marsh describes the inpact in 1964 of an album which runs for only 22 minutes with 11 songs. In some way this might be the ultimate collection of early Beatles recordings. That's the main reason to buy this book!

    Christer
     
  6. nikh33

    nikh33 Senior Member

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    Generally speaking, yes, no doubt about it. But in 1966 The Beatles were beginning to throw the toys out of the pram a bit and from them pressuring Brian into using the 'Butcher' picture to cancelling their autumn tour, to only one TV appearance to making their own videos instead of trailing down to Riverside or over to Teddington Lock, and so on, I see nothing unlikely in them 'deciding for themselves' on the running order. Of course, Mr Martin may have said "Very nice, lads, but here's the order I've worked out while you've been away gorging on female adulation," but that's not to say The Beatles didn't attempt to decide. Tony barrow tells a good story, true - but he was there!
     
  7. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Nice synopsis. Seems quite likely that the lads wanted or asked for a specific order and Sir George tweaked it to make it all work. Surely, the count-in on Taxman made that track the favorite to lead things off.... and that the other-wordly sounds of Tomorrow Never Knows made for the perfect finale. Ron
     
  8. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    The issue with Hey Jude was not NAB vs. CCIR, but rather the monitors and monitor level at Trident.
     
  9. Tone

    Tone Senior Member

    The 'infamous' Dave Dexter interview here (audio version) ....... http://www.beatledrops.com/revolver.html ...
    (Halfway down the left column) Along with some of the Capitol Fake Stereo songs from Yesterday and Today, compared with the original UK.
     
  10. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey

    In (I think) the late-90's on WNEW-FM, I remember Scott Muni playing "No Reply", noting before it started that it was going to be in stereo. I could swear the version he played had some Capitol echo on it. I think there may be variations on this album out there re processing, like the U.S. RUBBER SOUL.
     
  11. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    That's correct. I have a C1 pressing of Beatles 65 (from 1988). I'll Be Back is without the added reverb. It sounds similar to the UK version, although not as good. On the hand, the older pressings that I own (original stereo, lime green Capitol and Apple pressing) and all play with added reverb.
     
  12. jeighson1

    jeighson1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI
    The trouble with With The Beatles, IMHO, is that the Beatle originals are very good but not great. Meanwhile, there are some excellent covers. But they arrive too little, too late, and don't mesh well when interspersed with the originals. The album never quite takes off.

    I agree with you that the club covers are important to showcase. That's what the Beatles' Second Album is for. From start to finish, the Second Album is a great rock and roll album. Fear not, as Americans did not have to wait long to see this important flipside of the Beatles--just a couple months after Meet the Beatles. (Incidentally, they are a great listen, back-to-back.)

    Meet The Beatles, on the other hand, begins with 3 excellent Lennon-McCartney originals (IWTHYH, ISHST, and "This Boy"), dovetailing very nicely into the originals that begin With The Beatles. These songs play very well as lower-octane mid-album tracks.

    'Till There Was You' takes on special importance in this configuration as the only cover, and a welcome change of pace. With only 12 songs, any jet lag in the final stretch is gone before you know it.

    Two powerful, short-and-sweet albums with a home for the singles! It's better this way than one over-extended hodge-podge album.

    That said, I don't always prefer the American albums.

    Here are the essential albums in chronological order through Revolver, as I see them:

    Please Please Me
    Meet The Beatles
    Beatles' Second Album
    Hard Day's Night (British)
    Beatles For Sale
    Help (British)
    Rubber Soul (American)
    Yesterday and Today
    Revolver (British)

    (I don't really mind the duplicates tracks. I think they work both ways.)

    Maybe they were just jealous of the Dave Dexter sequencing magic. ;) (I am mostly kidding with this statement, as Dexter hit only as often as he missed.)
     
  13. bhazen

    bhazen I Am The Walrus

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    Why do no Dexterizations appear after the first few US albums? Did he lose interest in doing them, did Capitol brass cancel the idea, or did EMI HQ in London finally get fed up with the variance in sequencing and sound?
     
  14. Ron you make a great point which is that "Meet The Beatles" is a stronger album (to me) than their first two albums taking some of the best songs along with some strong covers creating a better debut than "Please Please Me" and incorporating their most popular singles.

    Many of their other albums though were WEAKER than their UK counterparts particularly "A Hard Day's Night" (which was turned more into a soundtrack album but also split off some of the best songs NOT featured in the film) and Beatles for Sale".

    I agree with you though it was stricly a business decision although when Dexter did the programming for many of these he tried to create albums that while it didn't reflect the Beatles and George Martin's intentions did appeal to the American public at the time and that included sometimes adding reverb and other alterations to their recordings. It wasn't always perfect ("She's A Woman" sounds like it was recorded in a coal mine with Dexter's version).

    Sometimes the logic of his sequencing could be called into question ("The Beatles Second Album", "Something New") while other times he did a really good job of representing the band. Unfortunately, though that mean that he was second guessing Martin and the Fabs.

    While Dexter's legacy could be debated one could argue that he helped the Beatles success by crafting a first album that appealed to fans on just about every level and had more Lennon-McCartney originals than the UK album.
     
  15. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    With the exception of I Saw Her Standing There, everything on Meet the Beatles is from the recording sessions for the With The Beatles.

    Meet The Beatles was programmed perfectly by Capitol to break the group into the US market. It made sense to include the hit single, I Want To Hold Your Hand on the LP, followed by I Saw Her Standing There. I also like the fact that Capitol included the ballad This Boy after the first two up tempo tracks.

    I'm not a huge fan of the Capitol albums, but in this case LP, they did a good job in contstructing the album for the intended market. I won't defend what they did on their later Beatles releases.
     
  16. nikh33

    nikh33 Senior Member

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    There's no trouble with with the Beatles it's a sensational album. There is no better album released in 1963 anywhere in the world.
    'Lower-octane'? It Won't Be long? Are you through kidding?!!
     
  17. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I'm convinced that one of the main reasons Beatlemania happened in the US was Meet the Beatles. For most people in the US, the first Beatles album they bought was Meet the Beatles. They dropped the needle down on side 1 and got:

    I Want to Hold Your Hand
    I Saw Her Standing There
    This Boy
    It Won't Be Long
    All I've Got to Do
    All My Loving

    and were just floored. It is certainly one of the best "sides" of any non-greatest hits album released in the 60's, maybe of all time.
     
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  18. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    My thoughts precisely. There is no trouble with "With the Beatles" it's a sensational album.!!

    It's a stupendous album for that year, although I'd say it was the 2nd best album of the year, because for me personally the best album of 1963 was "The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan" but that's off topic and a whole other story altogether.

    Back to The Beatles, What Ron said in response to me earlier is truthfull in that I'm probably biased to the UK albums having grown up with them, of course it's true for both sides UK & US and I'm certainly not knocking you guys for preferring the US albums. I'm trying to be as unbiased as I can and look objectively, I do hate what Dexter did soundwise for me that's unforgivable, I can, even though I don't agree, see his point of making the running order of the albums suit for the USA, but I also believe if they were put out as in the UK and the rest of the world these albums would have been as successful regardless, because the songs and performances are just so strong that they didn't need any changes at all.
     
  19. nikh33

    nikh33 Senior Member

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    Yes of course, because then that's basically with the Beatles!
     
  20. BobbyS

    BobbyS Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    Delaware OH USA
    Actually, my favorite album from 1963 is called Please Please Me.

     
  21. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I was born in Scotland, so I'm biased both ways :righton: A few things if I may. First off, The running order on Meet The Beatles is unchanged from With The Beatles. After adding I Want To Hold Your Hand, I Saw Her Standing There (how did Capitol get the rights to this one VeeJay-licenced song?) and This Boy, the remaining Side One tracks are in the exact same running order as they were on WTB. Side Two continues with the remaining tracks up through Till There Was You (the only cover song on the US LP) they then skip Please Mr. Postman and Roll Over Beethoven (imagine THIS one on the LP instead of Till There Was You!) then include the remaining originals Hold Me Tight, I Wanna Be Your Man and Not A Second Time, once again in order. It really makes for a compelling listen. Try programming the songs, yes it's ok to use the original UK mixes, and see what you think.

    We all know, almost by default, that the The Beatles Second Album would be a hodge podge set, very much dominated by cover tunes. The remaining cover tunes from WTB would be released, in the same running order, except Thank You Girl was added after Roll Over Beethoven. I find it interesting that Dexter didn't completely re-program the tracks at will. Basically they follow one another as released in the UK, with a song added in here and there. Ron
     
  22. jeighson1

    jeighson1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI
    It's a hard-hitting song, no doubt. I just don't think it generates the same level of excitement as "I Want To Hold Your Hand", "I Saw Her Standing There", or "This Boy." It sounds great after This Boy, though. The juxtaposition brings out its power.

    "I Won't Be Long" just doesn't work as an album opener for me. All of the other British albums have better openers, IMHO.
     
  23. Larry Geller

    Larry Geller Surround sound lunatic

    Location:
    Bayside, NY
    Well, Bill Miller took over the bastardization job. He, however didn't mess with the sound much, just "ruined" the runing orders. It was his brilliant idea to chop 3 John Lennon songs off of Revolver, thus making it seem like George was taking over The Beatles!
    And With The Beatles totally destroys Meet The Beatles. Also, when I first heard I'll Be Back on the UK AHDN, it's lack of echo absolutely blew me away--it just sounded SO tinny on Beatles '65, and it still was my favorite song on that LP. Hearing it correctly was a revalation.
     
  24. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    This is COMPLETELY untrue. In early May 1966, Capitol inquired if there were any new songs available for their next "Capitol" album. George Martin personally responded that there were indeed three new tracks in the can and on 12 May, Martin, Emerick and tape op, Jerry Boys mixed into mono, I'm Only Sleeping, And Your Bird Can Sing and Doctor Robert. These mixes were immediately sent to Capitol. Thing is, Martin and crew didn't send or even do the stereo mixes until 20 May, by this time the US album was done and once again Capitol was forced to use their duophonic process for the three new tracks. The stereo remixes were used later that year on tape, but not album. None of the other tracks on Y&T were altered. Martin COULD have sent Taxman (mixed into mono back on 27 April) or Eleanor Rigby (mixed into mono on 29 April), but chose the three Lennon tracks. Bill Miller was not going to release the three tracks in June, then release them again in August. If there's anyone to blame for the US version of Revolver lacking the 3 Lennon tracks it's Sir George Martin.

    As for With The Beatles being a "better" album than Meet The Beatles... how so? MTB cuts out the cover tunes, some great, some average, 'cepting, Till There Was You. Are you saying Devil In Her Heart and Please Mr. Postman are better choices than I Want To Hold Your Hand and I Saw Her Standing There? Hmm. All of the original tracks remain and in the same running order as well. Not so sure how you can say WTB is "better".

    And what's all this 'echo chat' regarding I'll Be Back? It's the same mix on both labels. It doesn't sound tinny on the original Capitol LP or on Jensen's Capitol Series CD. Ron
     
  25. stereoptic

    stereoptic Anaglyphic GORT Staff

    Location:
    NY
    I thought that the Butcher cover was a complete surprise to the band. AFAIK, they had no say in the Capitol album design until Sgt. Pepper's. :confused:
     
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