Caravan - In the Land of Grey and Pink - Deluxe Edition remixed by Steven Wilson

Steven, for me it's pretty easy to download and burn files, even as authored DVD-As. BUT, I'm a tech geek. And this "but" should be obvious to the label representatives, together with another one: such things should be optional and they should have the same release date as the main album. By this I mean: there always must be a physical album (on a medium like DVD-V or better) with at least stereo version(s) of the album in true hi-rez LPCM and best multichannel DTS available.

And, if a customer still isn't completely satisfied with those options, there should be a link to the hi-rez lossless multichannel (preferably it should be included in the retail price of the aforementioned physical album, since it's already a kind of "deluxish edition", or, at worst, there should be a moderate "extra" but not another full price).

Just my semi-idealistic two Euro cents...

 

Just got my deluxe today...despite the unavailability of lossless, I am quite enjoying it. I'm not keen on the stickers, though. Well worth the purchase.

 

An on-going comparison between the SHM-SACD, the UK 1st press LP and the original Japanese CD over here: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=246372

I plan to compare the remix as soon as I receive it.

 

Hello there - I'm of course not very objective on this (!) but I'll try to answer your question. As well as the DVDAs, the 40th anniversary editions of the Crimson albums contain regular CDs with brand new stereo mixes of the original albums. These mixes are very faithful to the original mixes (exceptions are things Robert wanted us to fix or remove from first time around, but these are few and far between). So why do them? Well, largely because I had to recreate the original stereo mixes in order to go on from there and make 5.1 mixes, and in doing so I nearly always found that the raw audio coming off the transferred multi-track tapes sounded better to me than the original mixes - sometimes these differences were revelatory, as if a whole layer of mud and grime was being removed from the music. This might be because the original recording sessions were done under time or financial pressure, and not always in the best studios, or through the best mixing consoles. Another reason is that on an album like In the Court of the Crimson King I was able to resynchronize reels of tape that had been bounced down. For example on a song like the title track; one 8 track reel was filled with drums, bass and guitar, before being bounced down to a stereo pair on a second 8 track reel, which was then filled up with mellotron parts, which was then bounced down to a stereo pair on a third reel, for vocal and woodwind overdubs. This reel was then used to bounce down to a stereo master. Finally a further bounce was made to achieve the cross fades between some of the tracks. In short this means that on the final album master used for the previous 30th anniversary edition everything was at least a third generation copy, with some things being as much as fifth generation (drums, bass and guitar), leading to a more muddy and congested sense of space in the sound spectrum. Our new master has everything as first generation - this was a time consuming process of synchronizing the session reels (a constant process of adjusting by ear, as no two reels of analogue tape ever play at exactly the same speed), and then A-B comparing the original mix every few moments to make sure we were being faithful to it in respect of balance, EQ, echo/reverb processing, level rides, stereo placement..etc.

What is gained in this process is the natural clarity and warmth in all the instrument tones, as well as separation and a massive reduction in tape hiss (Moonchild in particular is liberated from a sea of hiss on the original mix).

Based on my work on remixing 70's albums so far, the difference in the old an new mixes has - for me at least - ranged from significant (King Crimson's "Lizard", and Jethro Tull's "Aqualung") to small but hopefully worthwhile (the new Caravan mix), to pointless (the original mix of Red proved impossible to better, so we did not include a new stereo mix at all).

Of course some fans will always prefer the original mixes - after all the anomalies and harmonic distortion that tape copying gives, plus the sonic signature of the original analogue mixing desks used, can become ingrained as part of what people love about the albums. The artist will rarely see it that way, but I can totally understand how some people will find hearing a new mix of an album that is deeply familiar and loved can be disconcerting and off-putting, no matter how faithful in every respect. Or they may just disagree with the choices made in the new mix. To this end most of these reissues contain both old and new mixes on the DVDA discs, both in high res.

Lastly in the case of the King Crimson reissues they all contain previously unissued pieces and alternate takes, and a lot of them are terrific in their own right, and at the very list historically interesting for the more fanatical Crimson fan (which in my experience is most KC fans!)

Hope that helps.
SW

 

Awesome insight into the work you have done on your reissue projects!
I appreciate it not only as a fan of the music,but from a technical perspective as well.
Initially some people might be put off knowing these albums have been reworked
using a DAW such as Logic or Pro Tools but most would never suspect it judging by
how great your newer mixes sound.

So without straying too far off the topic of this thread, I gotta ask you.
How does one go about reproducing the actual EQ,plate verbs,effects and summing?
I've read that in the past you've used a Neve console strictly for summing stems
coming out of Logic with Pro Tools hardware,such as on "The Incident" Do you apply
the same process for these reissue projects?

Thankyou for taking the time to stop in here and post. It's a huge community of people
who love music and are passionate about it. It's awesome to know that someone as
yourself who is well regarded in the industry,and who is also a fan of great music of
all types and is equally as passionate about it as well. Especially considering how busy
your schedule must be!

 

Steven, when are the next King Crimson reissues scheduled to be released? And can you give any of the bonus tracks on theses releases?

 

Thanks so much for your posts. It's fascinating to get details on the process from your unique perspective. I love all the KC reissues (especially the surround mix of Lizard) and appreciate you keeping up the good fight for surround mixes and high res.

Deluxe Land of G & P - I was able to listen to a good chunk of this today. The lack of high res audio notwithstanding there is still plenty to love about this release (and I own the 2001 reissue, BBC recordings and the recent SHM-SACD). The surround mix is a real treat. Always nice to have the added clarity of the voice (and trombone!) isolated in the center speaker. The 2 videos look and sound quite nice. I loved SW's alternate mix of Nine Feet Underground on the first disc. Plenty of nice surprises (is that Dave Sinclair singing lead in the final vocal section?!) and what an ending! Plus you get great material first issued on the BBC recordings and the 2001 Decca reissue.

Oh, and getting a surround mix of Frozen Rose was quite an unexpected pleasure.

Cheers,
Eric

 

I'd never heard Caravan previously, but I've ordered it on the strength of the samples on Amazon of a previous release and the promise of a surround mix.

Looking forward to it!

 

I picked up a copy today and have listened to disc 1 so far and imho it's quite good....so far.

 

Thanks kindly Steven. I very much appreciate you taking the time to reply and in great depth too. One final question if you don't mind or for anyone else who can answer this for me. As indicated in my previous post I can only play two channel audio. I purchased the DVD/CD version of 'In The Court...' this weekend past. When I play the DVD in my DVD player I was expecting to be able to choose the PCM Stereo 2.0 (24/48) of either the original album mix (2004 master edition) or the 2009 stereo album mix yet only one set list of songs can be chosen and there is no indication of whether this is the original album mix (2004 master edition) or the 2009 stereo album mix!? I don't know what I'm listening to!?

 

Anyone who is not ordering this because the surround mix is dolby digital is missing out on one of steven's best work. The surround mix sounds just about perfect.

 

Also anyone know if the mastering on disc one the same as the previous remaster? I think it sounds pretty good. Nothing to compare it too though.

 

Many thanks for sharing your insights with us, Steven!

 

I doubt Steven Wilson has been involved in the authoring of the DVDs. I don't remember the details of the DVD navigation but I can confirm that both stereo mixes are included in the DVD. The easiest way to find out if you are listening to the 2009 is to check if "Moonchild" is shorter (i.e. the same length as in the CD included in the package). The 2004 version (original mix) has "Moonchild" in its original lenght.

 

I could only wish they (the industry) hired Steven for some more forthcoming projects that already look like a missing opportunity due to an obvious lack of his vision and dedication. Pink Floyd The Wall super-duper sets lacking any hi-rez content, anyone? (Sorry for this obvious off-topic...)

 

Thanks. I will check this out. I do feel however that there must be something I'm not doing correctly i.e. player settings? that is preventing me from enjoying this release fully. So as my question is more to do with the King Crimson release I have moved my question to a separate thread so as not to interrupt this thread any more. Any additional help or info would be appreciated.

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=6626871#post6626871

 

Haven't played it yet, but noticed some differences in comparison to the 2007 remaster bonus tracks.

1. "Disassociation/100% Proof" not carried over to the new release;
2. "Aristocracy" is only 3:17, as opposed to 3:43 on the 2007;
3. "Group Girl" is about 15 seconds longer on the new release;
4. "I Don't Know Its Name" only available in the surround mix on the new release.

The packaging could be better. The DVD is not easy to extract in my copy, and the bottom sticker has to be torn to open it up!

 

Isn't it "Frozen Rose" on the first disc?

 

Spot on. Missed that!

 

Yeah, this is favourite so far as well. I will buy all of them as they are released.

 

anyone else going for the associated vinyl release ?

http://store.universal-music.co.uk/...rey+pink-40th-anniversary/invt/0600753342008/

 

That is some fancy-looking grey-and-pink vinyl!

 

Just got the Deluxe CD edition...

The packaging is a bit WTFesque. The "Deluxe" strip is litteraly a sticker glued to the digipak. And the most important disc, the DVD with the remixes, is housed without protection in the cardboard slip (where the booklets usually are).

But wait, the really confounding thing is that there is no lossless version of the new mixes.
That is utterly stupid. I mean what kind of idiot takes the trouble to command a complete remix and not offer it in the best possible light to show the freaking differences?!
As it is, the new stereo mix that I'm listening to right now sounds so-so. Like a damn lossy Dolby track from 1998. My old original vinyl on my "mid-fi" system sounds much better, when it shouldn't. If I were Steven Wilson I'd be pretty angry.

Bottom line: they really went the cheap route with this.

Shows that the record companies still don't have a clue.

 

I have decided to pass on the DE, but I will be picking up the vinyl for the extra tracks. Curious as to how it is going to stack up against the original UK Deram vinyl.

 

And there is absolutely no excuse to not have included at least the new stereo remix in lossless 16/48 PCM (when a lossless 24/96 stereo track would have worked just as fine). That the very least they could have done. I mean, you can read it in every single DVD player ever manufactured!!

What's wrong with these people!