Carson, Leno, O'Brien, Letterman etc...

I'm from Europe. Don't have all the US- TV stations... and never had a "complete overview"...can some please list/explain who started... who followd who...and what stations.? Any rivalery/hate/tention.
What's cancelled/ended..who's going on. (I know Leno, Carson, Letterman is off)

Corden, Leno, Kimmel, Lettermam, Noah, Colbert..... all seems to be the same ki d of show... runs all the time.... is it too much?

I like to watch some clips from theese types of shows .. thats why I'm asking.

Hope for serious posts.

 

The top half of this page is a good starting point:

Late-night talk show - Wikipedia

The current network late-night talk show weeknight lineup is:
ABC: Jimmy Kimmel Live!
CBS: The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, The Late Late Show with James Corden
NBC: The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon, Late Night with Seth Myers

 

As to who started this, I would say that the first show that was recognizably in the typical late-night talk show format was Steve Allen’s Tonight show in 1954.

As for rivalries and tensions, the biggest would be David Letterman (then host of Late Night, which immediately followed The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson) and Jay Leno (then Johnny’s regular guest host). Both hoped to succeed Johnny when he retired. Carson backed Letterman, but NBC picked Leno, so Dave shifted to CBS to launch The Late Show in the same time slot as Leno’s Tonight Show. (I think it’s not particularly well known that after Johnny retired, he continued writing the occasional joke for Letterman right up until Carson’s death.)

Number two would be Leno and Conan O’Brien; Leno gave up the Tonight Show to Conan so Leno could launch a talk show in prime time; after that failed quickly and horribly, Jay ousted Conan to take back his old slot.

Number three would be Joan Rivers and Johnny Carson. Rivers had regularly filled in for Carson, but when NBC execs were discussing Johnny’s possible successors (some six years before he actually retired), Joan’s name apparently wasn’t on the list, so she got her own show scheduled directly against Carson, who never forgave her.

I gather that all the current network late-night hosts actually get along pretty well.

 

Watch 'The Late Shift' for a look at the Letterman/Leno rivalry.
Available on You Tube.

 

Not exactly what transpired.

Both were under contract so NBC were faced with terminating either contract. Conan's was cheaper to terminate and Leno had a proven #1 hit so NBC saved the money they could and hoped Leno could regain the #1 slot, which he did.

Really sucks for Conan as the ratings for Leno weren't great for the first 2 years while they only gave Conan 9 months (I think) to get great ratings. Unfair to me, but that's showbusiness for ya.

 

I think the first three in order would be Steve Allen Jack Paar and Johnny Carson.

 

This book covers what happened at the time pretty well: The War for Late Night: When Leno Went Early and Television Went Crazy: Carter, Bill: 9780452297494: Amazon.com: Books

I was fascinated with it when it happened & couldn't put this book down.

 

CNN did a doc series last year that is a good overview: The Story of Late Night | CNN Creative Marketing
I don't know if you can stream the doc anywhere now, but there is a link to a podcast at the bottom of the page that might be helpful.

 

Here’s Conan talking to Dave about Jay.

 

Dick Cavett was a thing at one time (scheduled by ABC against Carson on NBC). Also, during the '60s and '70s, there were 90 minute daytime talk shows that were similar to the late night shows. I'm thinking of Merv Griffin and Mike Douglas, mostly (and Dinah Shore for a briefer time). They had the same type of guests and format.

 

Jay Leno just did Bill Maher podcast in the past week. Youtube has the clip talking Carson/Letterman feud. I think Jay has some selective memory. At one point if you did the Leno Tonight show you were barred from doing the other talk shows for x number of months.

Leno/Letterman did some Super Bowl ad at one point during the feud.

Leno doesn't seem to have done the other shows much since he left TV, though he still does stand up gigs.

Personally, I gave up on all of the late night shows about 18 months ago. Judging by ratings i am far from alone.

 

Never understood the Carson - Leno situation completely. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Carson was supposed to be one of the most powerful guys on television. Didn't he renegotiate his contract for more money (was he not one of the highest paid tv personalities?), and for more time off to golf or whatever? I thought he was supposed to have all this clout. Yet when it comes time to retire from the show he spent nearly his whole career at and made a TV institution, he essentially had no say in naming his successor?

 

Must watch -

David Letterman
1983 to 1993 NBC "Late Night With David Letterman"
The best and arguably changed late night talk shows forever. Introduced irony and insanity to a pretty formulaic thing.
Wacky, weird and wonderful.
He turned into one of the best interviewers on TV. Sometimes cranky and confrontational, he never kissed anybody's a$$.

1992 to 2015 CBS "Late Show With David Letterman" 1992 to around 2000 is the best era of his CBS show. Still worth watching but not as weird as his NBC show.
The show calmed down after that.

Conan O'Brien
On NBC O'Brien took Letterman's torch and carried it farther and weirder. Great, great stuff. Being funny was the most important thing.
Also a good interviewer. Not much depth but that's not why you watch Conan.
Maybe the funniest talk show ever on TV, hilarious.
His TBS show was not quite as consistent but there is still great stuff, particularly his travel shows.

Also good -
Stephen Colbert - Funny, intelligent, can be very political
Seth Meyers - Funny, intelligent, can be very political
Jimmy Kimmel - Very funny, intelligent, monologues can be very political
(Sensing a trend? A recent U.S. president angered, inflamed and politicized a lot of comedians and talk show hosts. Can't really blame them.)

Avoid -
Jay Leno - Great joke teller but that's it. Bad interviewer, lame sketches and bits.
Lowest common denominator stuff. Mostly stars pushing their latest product.

Jimmy Fallon - Funny, sweet guy but watching his show is like being at a 12 year olds birthday party.
Childish games, forced gaiety, not a very good interviewer.

Classic stuff -
Johnny Carson is the king but it is a show of it's time. Worth watching for interviews with long gone stars.

Dick Cavett - Maybe the smartest interviewer ever.
Clever, quick, witty, well-informed, well read. No skits, no bits, just a monologue and then pure interviews.
A talk show that talks, sometimes devoting a show to a single subject or theme.

Incredible guests. John and Yoko, George Harrison, Janis, Jimi, Bowie, Groucho Marx, Brando, Dali, Orson Wells, Katherine Hepburn, Hitchcock, Capra, Duke Ellington. A day after Woodstock show with Jefferson Airplane, Crosby & Stills, Joni Mitchell.
Really, really, really good.
Smart AND entertaining. Nothing dumbed down here.
Mostly late 1960's through 1970's.
If there is somebody you like and they are on Cavett watch it, now.

There are of course many more current and past talk shows.

This list is of course completely subjective and different people have different opinions about every one of those shows.
Some will hate the ones I love and love the ones I say to avoid, so it goes ... I get it.

Being able to visit these old shows is a gift we didn't used to have.
Be happy, enjoy it, we are lucky.

P.S. - In 1980 Johnny Carson shortened "The Tonight Show" from 90 minutes to 60 minutes.
My wife and I attended the last 90 minute show. It was at the NBC studios in Burbank California and the guests were Robert Blake, Erma Bombeck (remember her?) and comedian George Wallace.

 

David Letterman is the best

 

disagree with total respect for your opinion.

no one ever was, or will be, the equal of johnny carson. he is the master.

 

Hard to top Carson, but Letterman, especially during his NBC days, came pretty close. Letterman was more edgy and unpredictable in his younger years. I never watched much late night in the last 30 years, but the clips I have seen of Conan are always great. Leno was a funny guy, but the way he stabbed both Letterman and Conan in the back was pretty gross. Leno strikes me as one of those guys who is nice to your face, and then will laugh at you and throw you under the bus in a heartbeat if need be.

 

I tend to think all these guys will. It’s a cutthroat business. Plus in the early 1990s Leno had this manager, Helen Kuschnick, who apparently was a real Doberman Pinscher type. CBS offered Leno a contract to do a late night show. Kuschnick used that to get NBC to promise to name Leno as Carson’s successor. She then plants a story that NBC is unhappy with Carson and shortly afterwards Carson announces he will retire. Perhaps Letterman’s agent wasn’t underhanded enough or felt his friendship with Carson would get him the job. But it wasn’t Carson’s show; it was NBC’s and like King Lear Carson found out when you are gone you have no power.

 

[QUOTE="Leno strikes me as one of those guys who is nice to your face, and then will laugh at you and throw you under the bus in a heartbeat if need be.[/QUOTE]

As someone who worked in Late Night TV (not Leno) for a long time, I have to say that I've heard horror stories about every single host (tantrums, cruelty, next-level narcissism) from colleagues that I trust. That is, every host EXCEPT for Jay Leno. His show may have been middle-of-the-road and aiming for a broad audience (successfully), but you will not find a single ex-staff member who has anything bad to say about him. All his former writers and producers still rave about what a mensch Jay was, and, believe me, that is rare.

 

[QUOTE="As someone who worked in Late Night TV (not Leno) for a long time, I have to say that I've heard horror stories about every single host (tantrums, cruelty, next-level narcissism) from colleagues that I trust. That is, every host EXCEPT for Jay Leno. His show may have been middle-of-the-road and aiming for a broad audience (successfully), but you will not find a single ex-staff member who has anything bad to say about him. All his former writers and producers still rave about what a mensch Jay was, and, believe me, that is rare.[/QUOTE]

Insanely rare. Bill Maher has a podcast where he speaks with Jay and others and always brings up the late night "wars".

This may be the best of the short clips describing the dynamics:



To paraphrase Bill, Jay is a super-nice guy, but he's 1/2 Italian. So if he wants something, he gets it. In short, it's not his job to accommodate other talk show hosts' careers. It's his career. And they are all thinking of their own, too.

I think watching the Bill stuff mixed with the anti-Leno side, like Fallon, you'll get a good overview of all the stuff that was also "on the table" and where things got bitter. And learn why Leno got fired for being #1... twice!

But in short, The Tonight Show is either the longest running TV show in US history or close enough to it. Everything that came from it all spawned from The Tonight Show and the many hosts over the years.

 

Conan rules, Leno drools.

 

Judging the work and the person are two different things.

"Stuttering" John Melendez has pretty much confirmed this take. He has horror stories about Howard Stern, but said that Leno was always supportive.

That being said, Leno is not stupid. It's still a business. In the Maher interview, he kind of presented himself as a loyal company man when it came to NBC, but he, also, copped to hiding in closets during executive meetings and messing with the heads of those same executives when he thought he was being jacked around. I think he wanted to give them the impression that he would "settle all family business" if the need arose. Whether he was truly that ruthless or not is up for debate.

 

I don't agree with most of the above so I'll simplify this:
Carson was the best late night of all time, and the rest put together don't come close to Carson.
I prefer 1980 to 1989 era of Carson, BTW. Watch them at your pleasure on Youtube.