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CD burner question

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by TSmithPage, Apr 4, 2002.

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  1. TSmithPage

    TSmithPage Ex Post Facto Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    On at least two occasions recently, I've experienced some strange burning errors. Using the Roxio software, I've burned a CD directly to CDR without first saving it to the harddrive. I did not get any error messages during the burning and everything seemed to be fine. However, on playback, there is a 1 to 2 second spot on one of the tracks with just a loud electronic noise, which is not only startling but obviously ruins the CDR. The original discs are perfect and do not have this noise on them. The problem is that I often burn discs for other folks and don't have time to audition the CDRs before I send them out, so I don't know the noise is there until I hear back from them later. Anyone experience something similar to this, and have any recommendations as to how I can avoid it in the future?
     
  2. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    Sagamore Beach, Ma
    We talked about this quite a bit in the past, but I'll make it brief and simple as possible...

    There are two different audio Cds:

    DAO - Disc at once. Means there are no breaks in the recording or burning. The audio program will have track breaks, but the data never takes a break on the disc. Beginnning to end, it's data, baby.

    TAO - Track at once. One simple rule - 2 second gap between tracks, and the lazer WILL stop and leave a 2 second gap.

    Now, TAO is what's happening with you, basically. What kind of burner do you have?

    There's only one killer CDR program for audio, and it's EAC (http://www.exactaudiocopy.de) You can image a whole disc to your hard drive, and burn it to CD without any changes whatsoever. Read the FAQ, some info on the website and try it. It's free, and totally non-obtrusive to other CD burning programs.

    Nero, www.ahead.de - Is also very very good, but has a 30 day trial with hopefuls that you'll buy the program. Nice stuff, but EAC is the big daddy. You'll see....
     
  3. Grant

    Grant Senior Member

    Location:
    United States
    You could have a synch problem with your hard drive and your burner. This crops up on my PC from time to time. It could also mean that either your CD burner or CDROM are produing the errors.

    In any case, I suggest you forget doing direct CD to CD copying and go back to disc imaging, as it is THE most reliable method of copying a CD on some machines.
     
  4. TSmithPage

    TSmithPage Ex Post Facto Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Thanks for your fast responses. I was not doing track at once burning, but rather disc at once burning, and the electronic buzz was in the middle of one of the songs, not at the end or between songs. However, Grant's point is well taken, and I may just need to burn the disc onto the hard drive first, but that obviously doubles the burn time...
     
  5. Kayaker

    Kayaker Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Joisey Now
    Pardon the ignorance - Grant, what is disc imaging?
    Thanks,
    kayaker
     
  6. Grant

    Grant Senior Member

    Location:
    United States
    Disc imaging is when you replicate the exact disc data to a hardrive.
     
  7. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    Sagamore Beach, Ma
    ....and this is the only way to do it right, folks. Don't go on counting that your CD drives do well on going direct drive-to-drive. That's the worst thing you could do.
     
  8. Paul C.

    Paul C. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    My understanding is that doing direct CD to CDR copying can introduce significant amounts of jitter (in most average setups), whereas using the interim step of creating a hard disk image avoids this problem to a large extent. Am I right here gentlemen?
     
  9. RDK

    RDK Active Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Todd, I know the noise problem you're experiencing as i have several cdrs like that. Unfortunately, I don't know what causes it. It hasn't happened (so far as i know) on any discs that i've burned (using EZCD Creator), but i have heard it on cdrs i've gotten from other people. I don't think it's a TOA, jitter, or buffer problem.

    Ray
     
  10. Pat

    Pat Forum Detective

    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Although this may not cure the problem, it certainly can't hurt!


    (1) Run a Defragmenting/Maintenance/Clean-Up Program before burning your next disc.

    (2) Minimize the amount of "other" programs running while doing your next disc.


    Good luck!
     
  11. Claviusb

    Claviusb A Serious Man

    I can assure you that your problem is related totally with burning "On the fly," which is THE WORST way to do audio on CD-R. I had a friend send me a ton of discs that she burned this way, they all had chirps, and burps and stutters. All done with EZCD Creator, too. There should be a law!

    And Ray, taking "twice" as long to make a burn by going to your hard drive first saves you time compared to having to reburn "funkified" CD-Rs over and over trying to get a decent copy. I recommend doing what Sckott says (going the EAC route) but it's your call.
     
  12. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    Greater Vancouver
    As an unbiased listener, I don't have cd-r burning facilities.........yet, I can honestly say that EAC is really good, not perfect mind you.

    Claviusb burned some for me using EAC and when I actually got one of the cd-r's on gold disc, yes it was DCC, I compared them and they were relatively close. The gold cd was a little more precisely defined but the cd-r was no slouch.
     
  13. Patrick M

    Patrick M Subgenius

    Location:
    US
    Not necessarily true. TAO means the laser ("s" is for "stimulated") is turned off between tracks. It does not necessarily mean you're going to get two second gaps -- this is burner dependent.

    However, even if your burner supports "gapless" TAO, you're going to hear a click between tracks.

    Straight from Roxio:

    I also don't agree that this is where TSmithPage is having problems.

    BTW, Todd, don't believe the "you must use EAC" stuff. CloneCD, CDRWin, and probably others work fine as well. EAC is the most anal-retentive, to be sure, but you can do fine with other apps. Just *don't* use EZ CD Creator.
     
  14. Claviusb

    Claviusb A Serious Man

    I agree that he doesn't "have" to use EAC, I've had very good results from Nero also. My preference is EAC, but that's simply my opinion.
     
  15. Grant

    Grant Senior Member

    Location:
    United States
    Hey guys, using EAC may be a good idea but it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing! Uh...anyway, the burner must becapable of accurate audio extraction. Most burners can do it but many CD-ROMs, especially older ones are plain shi**y about it! Most people use one burner and one CD-ROM to copy CD to CD. This is a no-no if one wants to make a good copy with this method.

    I could do disc-to-disc but the CD-ROM I have is crappy. The burner does perfect DAE, so I make disc images.
     
  16. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    Sagamore Beach, Ma
    I use what works every single time. Reliability and predictibility is where its at. I don't want to fool around. EAC I use for Audio, CDRwin for Data and NERO for VCD authoring.

    No one has to use anything, but I agree, one should graduate from Roxio products to enjoy a lot more freedom.
     
  17. SonicZone

    SonicZone Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upland, CA
    Two good points, Pat, and I'll add this one:

    Reboot your PC "cold" (Shut Down/power off -- not Restart) immediately before the burn to ensure that Windows is running "clean" and your drives and other devices are properly initialized. I've had no problems with this before, but I also temporarily disable my screen saver beforehand, too.
     
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