Hello all. Trying to crowdsource a solution here. I have a Sony XA5400ES SACD player with VSE mods that is just the bee's knees when it comes to playing SACDs. Unfortunately, it looks like the laser assembly is on its way out, and there are no replacements available. (A weakness of all Sony SACD players, apparently.) Major drag because the player + mods was a considerable investment. Happily, my Benchmark DAC3 can convert DSD over DoP 1.1. (I understand the limit is DSD64; is this what you get out of commercially pressed SACDs? That's all I have; I've never downloaded DSD files.) So what I need now is a transport that can output both 16/44 Redbook, and DSD over DoP 1.1, via USB or coax output (I'm had problems with optical output so am leery of that route). Analog output not necessary. Recommendations? I admit that (perhaps foolishly) I haven't budgeted for a replacement SACD player, so cost is definitely a consideration. Thanks!
P.S. I see that the Sony UBP-X800M2 reads both CD and SACD and has a coaxial output. Amazon has it for $278. Anyone know if it outputs DSD over DoP 1.1? P.P.S. Reading the manual. It's also not clear to me if it outputs DSD over coaxial or only over HDMI.
I think you will find that no SACD player will output DSD except on a secure interface like HDMI. Definitely not on coax. The general method people are using is to buy one of the Chinese HDMI convertors that are widely available on ebay and connect to transport that outputs DSD over HDMI. They aren't licensed by HDMI so can get away with extracting DSD to an unsecure interface.
A far cheaper option would be to rip all your SACDs to DSD files with a $35 SACD/Blu-ray player, and then play those lossless DSD files thru your Benchmark just like you would anything else. Much cheaper than a new transport, with no concerns about long-term laser issues.
Well, I think it would depend on how much your time is worth, and how computer savvy you are since there are quite a few steps to capture the DSD to your computer, but sure, that's a valid option for some with PC-based audio systems.
Don't think so. Maybe when I retire. But just for information, how do you rip an SACD? P.S. Not finding anything for HDMI to DoP 1.1 conversion (see below) so I may have to go this route. I don't want to, because playback through my laptop is not as good as through a standalone player; I've compared using Redbook CDs. But just in case, can you point me to some info on how to do this?
Ok, so I get the Sony player, for example, and output DSD via HDMI to a converter. Can the converter then output DoP 1.1? And if so, can you point me to any of those converters?
Some can, there are many articles around, including one in Stereophile. Maybe read this article from last year (it was mainly regarding HDMI to I2S connection for SACD playback) and especially the comments at the end (that cover other interface situations) for more info ... At Long Last! Listen To Your (Physical) SACDs Through an Outboard DAC Also, previous thread here ... DSD via HDMI from Oppo UDP-203 to Holo Spring 3?
Thanks! I looked at that article, but in that case the input was in a format called I2S. No mention of DoP 1.1, which is what I need. The thread you pointed me to was the same; input was I2S. Googling around but not finding anything for HDMI to DoP 1.1 conversion. Btw coax is only one option, USB is another. P.S. DoP 1.1 seems to be a USB implementation, not coax. I2S seems to be output over HDMI.
I know, that's what I said, but I directed you to the comments at the end for more info regarding other interfaces, like coax. The box has coax output along with the I2S. The Stereophile article I mentioned covers the GeerFab device that also does DSD via HDMI to DoP over coax, but it's $999 via Music Direct, so a bit pricey for this task ... GeerFab Audio - D.BOB Digital Breakout Box In any case, I haven't done it myself so don't have any recommendations, just mentioning what is available.
Ok, thanks. I found one of those Chinese converter boxes on eBay that takes DSD audio over HDMI and outputs DoP over coax. Seems like that will do the trick ... if it actually works. Ah, the discussion at the end. I get it. Some say the quality of the transport is key, so I wonder if the cheap Sony is up to the job. In any case, I'll report back. Thanks again!
Ok, I think my first step will be trying this. I'd be grateful for a primer on how to do this. I'm a Mac user, if that makes a difference. Thanks again!
What you want to do used to be nearly impossible. I too have a wonderful-sounding VSE modded Sony SCD-1 which had its spindle bearing fail which caused me a great deal of grief over its loss. So when I decided to replace it, I was determined that my replacement be a two-box solution. I first accomplished this task with a very expensive Vanity HD card for my Oppo 103 which allows it to send DoP over coax directly to my Direct Stream DAC (it was one of the first which supported DoP over coax). These Vanity cards have long since been discontinued. But the good news is that there are some new alternatives. The super high-end alternative is the ~$1500 vanity HDMI de-embedder which will output DSD as DoP from and HDMI signal containing DSD. There is also a $110 Chinese unit which can extract DoP DSD from HDMI to coax as well. Have to be careful with these Chinese units though as there are cheaper but 100% identical looking units which will extract DSD to I2S (only) but not to DoP. So you MUST get a DoP version of one of these devices if you want to use your benchmark this way. Alternately you could also go the direction of buying a new DAC which has an I2S input. And then you would only need a de-embedder which supports DSD extraction to I2S.
Yes, I found one of these. The $110 unit that does DoP, not the $50 one that only does I2S. But then I have to find a transport to use it with. I'm happy with the Benchmark DAC so I'm not looking to replace it.
HifiHaven has a good thread on how to do it: Rip SACD with a Blu-ray player along with a list (in same thread) of compatible players (all of which are pretty cheap/common) Rip SACD with a Blu-ray player
I’ve ripped over 100 SACD’s using this method. It uses an inexpensive Pioneer or OPPO player and some free software. I found it pretty easy and the result is DSD 64 files that I play from Roon to my PS Audio Directstream DAC. SACD Ripping using an Oppo or Pioneer? Yes, it's true!
For the de-embedder, see this thread and pay particular attention to the posts of @Linger63 OPPO BDP-83 (Yes, Old) Output to DAC for CD and/or SACD... You need the specific model he links to in order to get DoP. Any cheap transport should do. Your Benchmark DAC is designed to remove any incoming transmission jitter from the source. With regard to ripping, see this thread: SACD ripping, Mac/Oppo. How, exactly? Pay attention to the issue of Java in a Mac environment. The process is much easier if you have Java installed. You do not need to go to the expense of finding an Oppo. There are cheaper alternatives from Pioneer and, especially, Sony. Last time I checked, you could find Sony models on eBay for $35. Don't worry about cosmetics or longevity, as (a) at this price you can buy a few, and (b) you will only be using the unit(s) for ripping, so it can be out-of-sight somewhere.
Ok, with all of your help I believe I've got this figured out. Sony BDP-S6700 player ($108 on Amazon) + Chinese HDMI to DoP interface ($113 shipped on eBay) + HDMI cable ($8 on Amazon) = total SACD playback solution for $229. Can't beat that with a stick! My XA5400ES hasn't given up the ghost entirely. It no longer recognizes the SACD layer of hybrid discs, but (as of this morning) can still play single-layer discs. If it's still limping along when the Chinese converter box arrives, I'll do a comparison and report back. SACD ripping is a project I'll leave for another day. Thanks all!!
I ordered the Sony BDP-S6700 player, but just realized that I can't use the menus without connecting it to a TV, which I don't have. Unfortunately, DSD output is not the default - PCM output is - so I will need to use the menus to change the setting. I see that Amazon has $49 HDMI monitors; would one of them work? While I wait for the Chinese converter box, I plan to connect the BDP-S6700 to my Benchmark DAC3 to play CDs, and compare the result to the XA5400ES used as a transport (it can still play CDs). If the Benchmark really is immune to jitter, they should sound the same, right? In any case I will report back. Thanks again!
Any HDMI monitor will work. I doubt that these will sound identical. But these most likely will sound similar. Your benchmark DAC and your Sony player probably use completely different DAC chips, and these chips probably won't sound identical even if your new Bluray player should have excellent jitter performance. I have no idea how the Benchmark and the Sony would do in a head-to-head competition in your system. But it is certainly possible that you might prefer the sound of your Sony. I know that I personally had a difficult a time finding a DAC which sounded as great inside of my system as did my old VSE modified SCD-1.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant using the BDP-S6700 as a transport compared to using the XA5400ES as a transport, both feeding the Benchmark DAC. Apples to apples. Should sound identical, right? I already use the XA5400ES just as a transport for playing Redbook CDs. I prefer the sound of the Benchmark to that of the Sony, even with its VSE mods. I only use the analog output of the XA5400ES for playing SACDs, and they surely do sound great. We'll see if the Benchmark sounds as good in that application.
Also, as to the monitor question, what about using an HDMI to USB adapter into my laptop? Would that work? Cost is $13 vs. $49 and the adapter would be easier to throw in the junk drawer. LATER. No, a quick Google search turned up the information that it won't work. The $49 monitor it is.
If you have a PC monitor with HDMI, you can use that to configure your Sony BD player. You will want to ensure HDMI output is ON, audio mode is DSD for SACD (not PCM), default to playing SACD layer of hybrid discs, and default to playing stereo zone of M-ch SACD discs. With regard to your Benchmark, this is part of a review of the earlier DAC1: TESTED: Benchmark DAC1 Pre Digital-to-Analog Converter and Preamp - The Absolute Sound "Here, bits really are just bits, and jitter on the input is simply ignored. This can be checked explicitly, by introducing jitter on the input and observing the effects if any on the output. Even at very high levels of such introduced input jitter, the output jitter artifacts are far below the level of audibility—on the order of 140dB down from full level." I remember Paul Miller (writing in Hi-Fi News) saying the same thing. Benchmark have made the case in the past that, in a properly engineered digital system, the transport is irrelevant. Provided two transports supply the same digital bit stream a good DAC will remove the transmission jitter. In John Watkinson's The Art Of Digital Audio, he writes that any DAC that presents audible differences when changing transports or digital cables should be rejected! [I see we were typing at the same time, so you don't have a PC monitor. How about a friend/neighbor?]
