CDs made from 2020 onwards should surely be audiophile only...

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by englishbob, Aug 2, 2020.

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  1. englishbob

    englishbob has left the SH Forums...19/05/2023 Thread Starter

    Location:
    Kent, England
    I've been playing a lot more CD's recently, mostly due to working from home in lockdown, and with everyone at home and on the WiFi, streaming Spotify as well was a bandwidth luxury.

    I've been playing a lot of old CD's from the late 80's early 90's and have been enjoying them, and for the last 10 years or so I've been very much a vinyl buyer.

    I was out at HMV today and was browsing the CD's and came across 2 well priced CD's I have on vinyl but not on CD...

    The The "Infected" 2002 remaster 24 Bit
    Steeley Dan "Aja" 1999 remaster

    Both these CD's put into sharp relief how good the CD format could be, versus how bad it became.

    The The's "Infected" is absolutely abysmal, it hurts your ears, its just full-on loud and brash, it hurts to listen to it. The back cover proclaims "Restored to reveal the full richness and complexity of the original recordings" - absolute bo******! Restored to Brickwall.

    "Aja" faired a lot, lot better in this regard, it's probably not as-dynamic as an original CD, but it is night and day against "Infected"!

    I think that fairly recently, unless someone has any examples, generally the loudness war has ended, and we are into a better sounding CD product these days?

    Given streaming is for the masses now and CD is going to end up being a niche physical item, like vinyl, I believe that ALL CD's should now revert to their original principals and be made for audiophiles, no matter what you think the term means.

    If there is a resurgence of CD and people return to it over streaming, then they should be forced to use the VOLUME CONTROL on their device, which is what I believe started the whole messed up CD sound in the first place!
     
  2. Chemguy

    Chemguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Western Canada
    You make fine sense. I heartily agree with your assessment.
     
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  3. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    I said the same thing on that CD thread a week back. Most people who are still buying physical media don't much care for loud cds.
     
  4. McMopMan

    McMopMan Well-Known Member

    Location:
    US
    We can hope and dream!

    Sadly, I'm not convinced the loudness war is anywhere near over. Perhaps the major producers have stepped back from the extreme compression that was once popular, but even moderate compression, which still seems very much in fashion, damages the music greatly at least to my ears.
     
  5. Somerset Scholar

    Somerset Scholar Ace of Spades

    Location:
    Bath
    I have that CD and it does have awful SQ. As does the reissue of Soul Mining. The back cover proclamation is salt in the wound. I had to buy that album again on CD, the original version which sounds so much better.
     
    elgoodo, anduandi, Lowrider75 and 3 others like this.
  6. Doctor Worm

    Doctor Worm Romans 6:23

    Location:
    Missouri
    Sadly, I can't remember the last time I purchased a CD that didn't sound terrible. Everything is being mastered for computer speakers and earbuds these days, which means turning the volume up way beyond reason.
     
    englishbob, lucan_g and Lance LaSalle like this.
  7. Yost

    Yost “It’s only impossible until it’s not”

    Claiming that CDs are better now, based on a 21 year old Steely Dan CD seems a bit weird to me. If you would have listened to any recent CDs, you might have noticed they’re basically the same as the streaming version: brickwalled most of the time. :cry:
     
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  8. englishbob

    englishbob has left the SH Forums...19/05/2023 Thread Starter

    Location:
    Kent, England
    Well, I'm not claiming anything, I'm asking...
     
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  9. englishbob

    englishbob has left the SH Forums...19/05/2023 Thread Starter

    Location:
    Kent, England
    JulesRules and Echo like this.
  10. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    that's cool, but most of the CDs in my collection are already...
     
  11. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Space-Age luddite

    Location:
    Central PA
    I remember asking the question point-blank at a radio convention to a label rep, why, if enough consumers can tell the difference, and the artists don't like it, and they're already getting bad press for it, and radio doesn't need more compression algorithm because they squash their signals anyway - but at their own choice of criteria - and everybody has volume controls already in the first place...then why do it.

    His answer: because customers prefer it. He looked like this was the first time somebody had ever dared put it to him point-blank...and, maybe it was. And then he shut me down, took the next question, and went on with the Q-&-A. I always got a lot of compliments at that convention every year from other attendants, for asking the right questions, that nobody seemed to be able to give an honest answer to.

    But, ya can't say I wasn't trying to help us all out by putting the right people on the spot.
     
    JulesRules, FJFP, xaml and 14 others like this.
  12. jeddy

    jeddy Forum Resident

    If I get a CD that is redlined I sell it.
    I try and fill my entire collection with the best mastered versions of my favourite music.
    Why would anyone want crappy sounding versions of their favourite music??

    I agree with the O.P that music today is (for the most part) pulling back from "hot" remasters.
    But then again, I mostly listen to jazz, instrumental, chamber, orchestral, early music and not very much pop and rock anymore.

    those other types of music never really did have issues with crappy mastering.
    They always seemed to be recorded wonderfully.
     
    Dave, pantofis, McMopMan and 2 others like this.
  13. Musical Chairs

    Musical Chairs Forum Resident

    I'd really like to see some market research on who is buying CDs in 2020. The labels' behavior suggests they think it is technological dead enders rather than audiophiles, like vinyl circa 1988.

    Exceptions: Deluxe edition physical releases are as likely to be on CD as vinyl.

    Target's special editions with the bonus tracks are always on CD, at least as far as I know.
     
  14. Francophile50

    Francophile50 The man with the satisfied ear.

    Location:
    Concord,CA
    Wouldn't that be wonderful if your premise came true? The power of music is amazing and to have it in it's purest form would be such a gift that I'm sure would be truly appreciated.
     
  15. dh46374

    dh46374 Forum Resident

    If anyone was going to do it, it would make sense for Analogue Productions and MoFi to do it, but their CD and SACD releases have slowed to a trickle. It seems there isn't a big enough market for audiophile CD and SACD releases to make it worth their while. As far as popular releases go, it's easier just to brickwall them and no one seems to mind. At least not enough people to be anything more than a few tenths of a percent of sales.

    It does provide an incentive to explore less popular, but just as good, genres of music, which is what I find myself doing more of.
     
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  16. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Sure if your goal is to accelerate the death of the format. :)

    Last thing cds need to help them live, is labels having to fork out for a different mastering for the format.
     
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  17. gjp163

    gjp163 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wamberal Beach
    100% agree but...look at this as a “perfect world” scenario.

    It’s about giving a damn and I look to the Redbook of the latest Dylan record “Rough & Rowdy Ways”. Fantastic sound that someone cared about.
     
  18. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident

    I love your optimism but I think it’s settled into two camps: I think labels got the message and vinyl, over the last two years (and I buy a lot of it) seems to have more or less knocked off the ridiculous loudness issue and mastering engineers are allowed to master them correctly. Cds seem to be for the casual listener where brickwalling is what the labels want. But I’ve heard enough good cds to know it is perfectly capable of great sound. It’s just not what major labels want.
     
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  19. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident

    We have to remember that 95% of people could care less, and most can’t even hear the difference. And many that do just buy vinyl now.
     
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  20. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    As Our Host has explained a number of times, vinyl has physical limits which constrain the cutting of grooves that don't exist for digital. So it wasn't that the labels decided to master more sensibly for vinyl but they pretty much had little choice. But I think that this division has sort of been embedded in the current music public in favor of vinyl. I think the Loudness Wars saved vinyl to a significant extent. But yes the sale of audiophile digital seems like a money loser based on the difficulties of these companies to survive profitably.
     
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  21. englishbob

    englishbob has left the SH Forums...19/05/2023 Thread Starter

    Location:
    Kent, England
    I agree that a large percentage of people that "might" still be buying CD's may not care, but I am sure 100% of them would notice the difference between a properly mastered version and a brickwalled one of the same thing.

    I was at a party many years ago and they where spinning an early CD of George Michael's "Faith" album. When that finished they put on another more recent CD and the volume was blasting. I heard the host say "why is this CD so much louder than the other one?" as he reached for the volume control to turn it down, this of course kicked in the "I know the answer to that!" part of my brain, wherein I attempted to explain why to a baffled audience. Suffice to say they didn't accept my answer because "well its a CD isn't it? that should mean its the same" - which in its purest form is the right and wrong answer, but besides the (lost) point, they could hear the massive volume spike but not explain why!

    Just put CD's back to having great sound, and the "fix" to those that love that high-volume manic sound - turn the volume control up.
     
  22. Dr. Pepper

    Dr. Pepper What, me worry?

    Surely!
     
  23. onlyconnect

    onlyconnect The prose and the passion

    Location:
    Winchester, UK
    Why from 2020 onwards? CDs should always be made to sound as good as possible. Unfortunately it is not the case - not sure if this will change, but a shrinking market could be positive if those who remain care more about sound quality.

    Tim
     
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  24. onlyconnect

    onlyconnect The prose and the passion

    Location:
    Winchester, UK
    Not sure about that, I have vinyl that sounds just as bad as its partner brickwalled CD. Bowie's Nassau Coliseum concert is an example.

    Tim
     
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  25. Retro Music Man

    Retro Music Man Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    The reality is that 90% of new albums have heavy compression baked into the mixdown. Regardless of the mastering, it's still going to sound like crap.

    On the plus side, remasters are certainly getting a lot better than they were 20 years ago. Everyone's forgotten about NoNoise (thank god!), and they're backing off on the compression.
     
    Jrr and Jarleboy like this.
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