CDs Pressed by Specialty: SRC code?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by CardinalFang, Apr 21, 2008.

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  1. scocs

    scocs Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY
    Thanks for the help. And to answer your question, no, it is not a record club copy.

    Could you please clarify: if the earlier glass master (say from 1990-92) was then used to make this 1994-95 cd, is that potentially a good thing or a bad thing?
     
  2. Potentially good or bad....? Well, that depends on you! Only you can decide what it is that interests you and that you want to collect. For me, it doesn't carry any interest simply because I have decided to focus on collecting 1st Glass Master 1st Stamper pressings from SRC and this disc doesn't fit either of these catagories. I have purchased some of these discs at high prices from other collectors simply because I know how difficult it is to find them! The market overall though, hasn't seemed to recognized this aspect of the hobby. I've never seen a disc listed on Ebay as a 1st Generation SRC or M1S1 or something similar. Even if they did, would it affect anyones bidding habits for it? Other than a few guys who check this thread out from time to time, no one seems to have an interest in such things. With few exceptions, most collectors (or sellers, at least) are only concerned if the disc was pressed in Japan or W. Germany before the U.S. got into the game.

    I would love to see the rarity of SRC-01 M1S1 pressings become recognized simply because it might help bring more of these discs to the marketplace and make it easier for me to find them. At the same time though, it would also make these discs a lot more expensive! So, for now, I'm content to just search, and search, and search some more hoping to come across a disc in the bins that makes me feel like this: :pineapple:

    Happy Hunting!
     
  3. JA Fant

    JA Fant Well-Known Member

    As above, I also have an early DADC version of LZ I.
     
  4. scocs

    scocs Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY
    Potentially good or bad....? Well, that depends on you...

    I didn't mean from a collectability standpoint; I meant from a sound quality standpoint. My experience would tell me that there is no difference in sound quality between a 3rd generation and 6th generation SRC cd. However, your comments about glass masters and pits confused me about the particular cd I have.
     

  5. After having reread my comments about the record club pressings, I realized that I made a mistake. I said, "I have found that record club pressings often times used old glass masters for their pressings." What I should have said was Stampers not Glass Masters.

    I don't remember where I read this (might have been an old Billboard magazine), but it had been stated once that a Stamper was good for about 10,000 pressings before it became too worn to continue to use it. The article had mentioned that as the Stamper wore out, the size of the pits became larger. As the pit size grew, the distance between the pits would have shrunk. This is why you'll find multiple Stamper numbers associated with each Glass Master number.

    As to whether your disc would sound better than an SRC-01 M1S1, you'll find people who will insist there is a difference and you'll find people who will insist that bits is bits and there is no way there can be a difference. As for me, I'm not touchin' that argument with a 10' pole!
     
  6. Lazlo Nibble

    Lazlo Nibble Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, Colorado
    The problem is that the descriptions in this thread talk about "pressings" when they should be talking about "masterings". The IFPI mould code on your copy of Q? A! just means Warner Bros. was still using the early-'90s SRC-02 master several years after it was created, which in turn just means that there was nothing "wrong" enough with the content of that mastering to replace it, and that they didn't press enough copies of that mastering to wear out the original glass master.

    Of the few dozen SRC-pressed discs I've actually checked, I've seen SRC mother IDs as high as 9, so 4 is unlikely to be particularly "worn out" as these things go. They check the block error rates on pressings and retire stampers/mothers before they deteriorate to a degree where you'd actually start having problems playing the discs.

    There is also no reason to assume a SRC-01 mastering is "better" than a later one -- earlier doesn't mean better, it just means different. In cases where a low SRC-xx number seems unusually rare it could easily be because they had to replace it due to problems with the earlier version. It's no different than comparing Japanese- vs. German- vs. US-mastered discs...if you're concerned about the best-quality version you need to directly compare the masterings.
     
  7. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    NEW ADDITIONS!!!!!

    The Association - Greatest Hits
    AC/DC - Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
    Bad Company - Fame and Fortune
    Benson, George - In Flight Cat# 256 327 Mfg in Germany
    Brown, Jackson - The Pretender
    Charles, Ray - The Great Ray Charles
    Clapton, Eric - Behind The Sun
    Crosby, Stills & Nash - S/T
    Deep Purple - Machine Head
    Dolly Parton, Linda Ronstadt, Emmylou Harris - Trio
    Doobie Brothers - The Best of the Doobie Brothers
    Eagles - Eagles
    Foreigner - Head Games
    Gabriel, Peter - So
    Gramm, Lou - Ready Or Not
    Hendrix, Jimi - Kiss The Sky
    Isaak, Chris - S/T
    Jones, Grace - Warm Leatherette
    Jones, Grace - Nightclubbing
    Led Zeppelin - I
    Led Zeppelin - Presence
    Led Zeppelin - Houses of the Holy
    Led Zeppelin - Houses of the Holy (Mfg by Record Service-Germany)
    Led Zeppelin - In Through The Out Door[]16002-2 SRC-01[]
    Led Zeppelin - Physical Graffiti
    Madhouse - 8
    Palmer, Robert Clues []90493-2 SRC-01[]
    Pretenders - S/T
    Pretenders - II
    Prince - Sign 'O' The Times
    Propaganda - A Secret Wish
    Sandborn, David - Hideaway
    Sandborn, David - A Change of Heart
    Simply Red - Picture Book
    Slayer - Reign In Blood
    Talking Heads - True Stories
    Time, The - S/T
    Time, The - What Time Is It? (possibly)
    Townsend, Pete - White City
    Van Halen - Women and Children First
    Van Halen - Fair Warning
    Vanderberg - Best of...
    Violent Femmes - The Blind Leading the Naked
    Williams, Andy - Close Enough for Love
    Yoakam, Dwight - Hillbilly Deluxe
    XTC - Skylarking
     
  8. ricks

    ricks Senior Member

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443


    Well it took a few years after I first read this post, but today I found a Houses Of The Holy SRC-01. Not bad for $1.99. Yep, those 1986 SRC-01's are at least as hard to come by as Targets, but not as difficult as Japan for US Columbia/CBS with 3x CSR or Red Faced RSO's. For Houses I can tell you in the bins the Target is way easier to find, but the SRC-01's just don't have the "cache" I guess?
     
  9. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    Bullock, Hiram From All Sides [81685-2 SRC-01]

    *Liner notes credit Barry Diament with the mastering
     
  10. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    Lightfoot, Gordon Summertime Dream [] 2246-2 SRC-01 []
     
  11. mscoll

    mscoll Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK, South East
    Finally! After a long time searching Hello, I Must Be Going! find a new home. To be honest, It wasn't easy. Probably the hardest to find 1st generation SRC pressing in my collection.

    [​IMG]

    The details were already mentioned in this thread, but I wrote them again.
    Matrix: 80035-2 SRC 05
    Jewel case: Ribbed sided with two stopper dots. CD tray with 12 teeth. I was expected long bar stop jewel case.
    Country of Origin: US, mailed from Pacific Grove, CA

    Sorry for the poor picture! This is not "01" SRC pressing, but it's definitely a hard to find for people from abroad. It took me more than a year to find it. I was looking hardly day by day, scanning the Internet and asking a questions. Sometimes I had enough, but last week a nice lady from California reply on my question. Never give up!
     
  12. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    Location:
    PARRISH FL USA
    Interesting. Does this mean that 01, 02, 03 & 04 exist?
     
  13. mscoll

    mscoll Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK, South East
    I've never seen any of those and I don't think they exists.
     
  14. Smooth,

    Nice find! And just more proof that persistence prevails when all else fails!
     
  15. mscoll

    mscoll Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK, South East
    Thanks. I will be looking for others too :) I also have No Jacket Required 81240-2 SRC 17 and stil looking for Genesis self-titled aka "Mama" :)
     
  16. mscoll

    mscoll Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK, South East
    In addition to Hello, I Must Be Going! SRC 01 appear only with WEA release. I have never seen SRC 01 in Atlantic first generation release.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. ricks

    ricks Senior Member

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    Found a Black Sabbath Sabotage in a local shops bins in August.
    1 2822-2 SRC-01
    Guess that makes it a 1987-1988 era SRC-01

    Same mastering is still used on the US CD's to this day - I think, so as a collector nice to get the first pressing.

    Previous visit to same shop I found the Castle Japan for Europe Sabotage.
     
  18. ricks

    ricks Senior Member

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    Just found a ;

    Van Halen
    Women An Children First
    3415-2 SRC-01

    The same shop also had a Valen Halen S/T 1986 SRC-01 from the same collection had to pass due to condition. Oddly enough WACF was gem mint.
     
  19. mscoll

    mscoll Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK, South East
    Recently I came across an early BMG Direct copy of "Invisible Touch" album. The disc was pressed by WEA/Warner SRC plant and it has the first generation matrix code, though not ends on 01! I was wonder when these copies were manufactured? The disc is really old. I'd guess 1986 is very possible. Below are photos of the CD. I also have seen a retail copy of this album with the same matrix.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Best regards,
    Mariusz
     
  20. no.nine

    no.nine (not his real name)

    Location:
    NYC
    Seeing this thread (several years late, sorry) made me curious about what I've got sitting on my shelves since I've never paid much attention to this. The most interesting to me were the 1st generation ones I found (only three):


    THE CARS - Panorama
    214-2 SRC-02

    EMERSON LAKE & PALMER - Works Vol. 1
    Disc One: 7000-2.1 SRC-03
    Disc Two: 7000-2.2 SRC-01
    This was bought brand new at the time of release, so these aren't swapped discs.

    LED ZEPPELIN - Physical Graffiti
    Disc One: 3 200-2.1 RE-1 SRC-01
    Disc Two: 200-2.2 SRC-01

    This one was bought used, so I don't know if this first/second generation combination was originally packaged together? My guess is that they were, and that it had something to do with the corrected "cough" master for Disc One. But was there an SRC pressing without the cough? The "RE-1" seems to suggest so, but I thought only the Japan-for-US copies eliminated the cough? Hmm, maybe this is the wrong thread for this. :laugh:


    I can list the second generations I found if there's any point?
     
  21. Hi Mariusz,

    Definitely not 1986. More likely 1988 or newer.

    1. 1986 was before the time the club changed its name from RCA to BMG and the labelling took time to change over even after that.
    2. RCA/BMG club discs were not allowed to have new releases by contract. So, they came at least 3 months or later.
    3. WEA's plant was limited production in 1986 and was slowly being fed into retail, while they sourced most of their discs from others.

    No club (either CRC or RCA) discs from WEA occured for at least a year after opening, based on what I saw (member of both and many used discs) and many friends who were also members. The early CRC discs were mostly from DADC or clones of retail (WG, Japan, and USA) and early RCA club discs were either clones of retail (WG, Japan, or USA) or sourced by RCA's pressers, including Japan. The sourced discs are easy to tell - DADC discs that had no retail DADC version or CBS/Sony version from Japan for CRC or the Dxxxxx RCA club catalog number instead of the retail matrix.

    Also, FWIW, One of the first SRC/WEA discs I bought was Genesis- Seconds Out (love that album!) when it was released. WEA was still releasing many discs at the same time from sourced pressers, although a lot of them were US pressers of their previous WG and Japan pressers like PDO USA, JVC Disc America, Sanyo USA, etc. The Seconds Out has SRC-01 and SRC-02 for the discs.
    Hope this helps!:)
     
  22. mscoll

    mscoll Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK, South East
    Hi Rob,

    Thanks for your input. I always appreciate it. The "Invisible Touch" CD has an RCA barcode on the rear inlay, so I guess comes up before RCA became on BMG? I also have a copy where the disc was manufactured in Japan (by Denon) and it has the same BMG markings and RCA barcode. BMG markings appearing only on disc.

    As you pointed out above, the slow start of the WEA/Warner US plant and a time to manage RCA Club contracts will cause delays, however, 1988 is too far for me. I think 1987, instead of 1988 would be more possible. You're right. The early RCA/BMG club discs were manufactured either in West Germany or Japan. Later on, when the WEA/Warner SRC plant in Olyphant went on-line they changed their suppliers (perhaps discs were cheaper and easier to get it?).

    And as you post above, due to a various delays WEA/Warner SRC discs might appear later in the club catalogue, but 1988 it seem too far for me. I have several copies of "Invisible Touch" CD. Almost every copy has a Master and Stamper addition to the matrix. I only have a one copy of "Invisible Touch" CD from WEA/Warner US SRC plant that came without "MX SX" markings. This copy is mentioned in this thread and it has a matrix numbers ending on 04.

    I am nearly sure that discs from 1988 that were manufactured by WEA SRC plants come with "MX SX" markings. Discs without Master and Stamper addition to the matrix, are earlier pressings. Well, they definitely looks older and it just "don't fit" to these discs manufactured in 1988 by the US SRC plant. Maybe I am wrong.

    CRC and DADC is a different story. They very occasionally had used different plants to manufacture their CDs. Only early pressings (before the US DADC plant went online) were manufactured abroad. Columbia House discs were mostly manufactured at SONY's Terra Haute facility.
     
  23. RCA Music Service (the CD club) changed its name to BMG Music Service in 1987, so it is possible. BTW, it was a fantastic deal, which is why they were so popular. If one did it right, CDs would average $4 each new! BMG, was quite a bit cheaper than CRC, but had much less selection back then. This changed years later.

    I'll have to look at my early WEA Mfg discs (I have a quite a few that were bought during the first 2 years of the plant, which is only 2 hours drive from here) to see what matrix markings were on them.
    I know when they were bought. I still have the longboxes for them!

    Something to keep in mind, is that WEA, like DADC, didn't change over the whole plant at once. It was common to get the old style and new style discs freshly pressed (one store here sold so many CDs, that the discs came out of the packing boxes from the CD factory!) for a while until they changed the matrix style.

    By the end of 1987, it was very common to get a WEA Mfg disc from retail and the sourced discs (JVC, Sanyo, PDO, USA or Japan) were becoming very less and less frequent. In 1988, they were pretty uncommon, as most discs were from WEA.

    CRC was a little different. DADC was already open, but they had supply/demand issues, with most CD plants. They also had evolving contracts with the record labels, since CDs were so expensive and also cost more to manufacture back then vs. records/tapes. Not until late 85, early 1986, did most non-CBS discs get made by contract (CRC labeled and usually made at DADC, but there were exceptions).

    CRC sent in my first shipment (I was an original charter member with both clubs): a retail version in a longbox WEA disc made in Japan,a CBS CSR Japan and DADC made discs same as retail , no blisterpack or longbox, and DADC CRC marked discs of non-CBS discs. There was a mix for a while, but even the non-DADC discs (usually WEA) were just CRC labeled versions of the same runs WEA procured like PDO, etc.

    CBS discs were retail discs with CRC in the early days, as were RCA discs in the RCA/BMG club. Neither club sold each others' parent label discs. i.e. no CBS discs from RCA/BMG club and no RCA discs from CRC.

    Hope the helps!
     
  24. Found a 1st. Gen. SRC-01 in the bins today:

    Michael Franks - Sleeping Gypsy
    Warner Bros.
    30042-2
    1977

    Matrix code is: 3004-2 SRC-01
     
  25. PH416156

    PH416156 Alea Iacta Est

    Location:
    Europe
    This is what I have:

    AC/DC: Back in black

    Matrix: 3 16018-2 SRC**13 ARC Ж M1 S10

    Label States: Made in U.S.A. by WEA Manufacturing Inc.



    INXS: Kick

    Matrix: Capitol JAX 10 3 81796-2 SRC-04

    Label States: Made in USA by Capitol Records




    Danny Gottlieb: Aquamarine

    Matrix: 3 81806-2 SRC-05

    Label States: Made in U.S.A. by WEA Manufacturing Inc.



    Les Arts Florissants, William Christie performance of Mozart's Requiem KV626

    Matrix: 9D 105308-2 SRC##01

    Label states: Mfd for BMG Direct Marketing inc. under license D 105308



    Joni Mitchell: Court and Spark

    Matrix: 2 53002 SRC-01

    Label States: Manufactured in Germany by Record service GmbH, Alsdorf



    Led Zeppelin - I

    Matrix: 3 19126-2 SRC+06

    Label States: Made in U.S.A. by WEA Manufacturing Inc.



    Led Zeppelin: Houses of the Holy

    Matrix: 250014 SRC-01

    Label States: Manufactured in Germany by Record service GmbH, Alsdorf




    Led Zeppelin: Physical Graffiti

    Matrices: 200-2.1 SRC-02 and 200-2.2 SRC-02

    Labels state: Manufactured in Germany by Record service GmbH, Alsdorf



    Led Zeppelin: Presence

    Matrix: 2 59402 SRC-01

    Label States: Made in Germany



    Led Zeppelin: In through the out door

    Matrix: 2 59410 SRC-01

    Label States: Made in Germany


    Bryan Ferry: Béte Noire

    Matrix: 1 25598-2 SRC-04

    Label states: Made in U.S.A.




    Prince: Sign o' the times

    Matrices: 925 577-2/1 SRC-01 and 925 577-2/2 SRC-01

    Labels state: Manufactured in Germany by Record service GmbH, Alsdorf



    Prince: Lovesexy

    Matrix: 92570-2 SRC-02

    Label states: Manufactured in Germany by Record service GmbH, Alsdorf

    "Songs are in a continuous sequence"



    Lush: Split

    Matrix: 1 45578-2 SRC**02 M1S2 furthermore, I see a circle with S logo

    Label states: Mfd by BMG Direct Marketing under license D 104836



    King Crimson: Discipline

    Matrix: 1 3629-2 SRC+01

    Label states: Made in U.S.A.



    Dire Straits: s/t

    Matrix: 1 3266-2 SRC-07

    Label states: Made in U.S.A.



    Dire Straits: Brothers in arms

    Matrix: 1 2564-2 SRC=10

    Label States: Mfg. by WEA Manufacturing - Made in U.S.A.



    and this one with a strange matrix:

    Dire Straits: On every street

    Matrix: TN-00┐8 SRC126680-2 RAD3

    Label States: Mfg. by WEA Manufacturing - Made in U.S.A.
     
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