Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Dr. Funk, May 6, 2019.
Interesting footage and other small details.
Apart from the obvious stereotyping and the miners scene with armed guards, the HBO series was excellent.
However the serious effects of the fall out are still emerging but not being counted as part of the damage.
At WC USA 94, Bulgaria got to the semi final, one of their stand outs was the player Lechkov, bald as a coot. He attributed his hair loss to the Chernobyl disaster, he said he lived about 800km away from Chernobyl and many young men in his town lost their hair. I never thought about that too much at the time as he seemed fit and healthy.
In 2012 another very talented Bulgarian footballer, Stiliyan Petrov (Celtic and Aston Villa), was struck down by an aggressive attack of a cancerous disease, leukaemia. Syllian was born in Montana about 500km from Chernobyl. The Bulgarian team doctor Dr Iliev blamed Stiliyan's disease on the Chernobyl fallout.
Dr Iliev revealed that radiation in the northern area of Montana where he grew up was 1,000 to 1,300 above normal levels, but leaders of the former Communist state did not tell the population about this danger as they harvested vegetables. "It was in the late spring, the population was eating fresh radioactive vegetables and other foods. Many people who were kids back then suffered cancer because of this," The Sun (newspaper) quoted Dr Iliev, as saying. "We called them The Chernobyl Kids. Most were born in the same region as Stiliyan," he added. Chernobyl is just 650 miles from Bulgaria's capital Sofia, and Dr Iliev believes Petrov is suffering from cancer due to the lack of information. "There are no other cases of such illness in this family, that is why I think Stiliyan is a victim of the old communist regime's lack of information when the nuclear reactor at Chernobyl exploded, and the radioactive cloud came to our country," he said.
Doctor reveals Chernobyl catastrophe behind Petrov's cancer
In Bulgaria the popular opinion is that every single case of cancer since 1986 is because of Chernobyl (or, after 1999 - also because of the NATO bomb raids with bombs containing depleted uranium in former Yugoslavia, as some of them took place near Bulgarian border, at some 100 - 150 km away from the capital city). So basically everyone who got any sort of cancer blames one of these two events, often depending of ones political views…
To what extent Chernobyl increased cancer related diseases in Bulgaria is hard to tell - the radioactive cloud reached Bulgaria on 30th of April, after a few days trip across other parts of Europe and Mediterranean sea, so it was already “weaker”, but the bad thing was that om 1st of May there were heavy rains in many parts of the country, there wasn’t information about the potential danger, and many people were attending the 1st of May manifestations under the rain.
But IMO what Lechkov said (If he said it at all - I never heard him saying that, actually, and I just checked the net and didn’t find such statement) is BS - because the radioactive cloud didn’t came directly from Chernobyl, but entered Bulgaria from the opposite direction (west border), and affected mostly the western and north parts of the country, while the city of Sliven (where Lechkov lived) was barely affected, if affected at all - Sliven is in south-west. Besides - Lechkov just have a classic male alopecia / baldness (although quite early in life, but this is not something extraordinary) - hair loss from radiation doesn’t look like that.
But of course it’s true - no one can really tell the scale of the damages, and also no one can predict for how long and where exactly this disaster would affect the health of the people.
I did not put too much heed on the Letchkov angle, I said as much, I don't know why you spent so many lines on it, but he was reported as saying it at the time, for better or for worse, Almanack: Baldies but goldies
The main part of my post which you didn't refer to directly was that there are still delayed fallout effects coming to the surface years later, as in the case of Styllian Petrov one of the Chernobyl children who were in in the area of Montana at the time of the fall out. And just what will have been passed onto Styllian's children or to the children of thousands of others who were contaminated. The hidden generational effects on DNA.
Some Bulgarian scientists have doggedly reserached the matter, measered the fallout, counted the related diseases and have released their findings.
This succinct scientific report is informative https://inis.iaea.org/collection/NCLCollectionStore/_Public/28/073/28073810.pdf
It is the nature of a fallout to hit pockets of areas, a radiation fall out is not uniform.
I lived in the middle of Sweden (some 1500km away) at the time of the Swedish radiation fallout alert, the first public alert.
Some Swedish scientists are convinced by their detailed research that the fallout was responible for the rise in cancer rates in two pocket areas in the north of Sweden
Swedes still dying from Chernobyl radiation
Radiation from Chernobyl has been cited as a factor in more than 1,000 cancer deaths in Norrland between 1986 and 1999 - this in an area with a population of around one million. Experts warn that the worst is yet to come.
Swedish scientists at Linköping University have found that new types of malignancies were formed as an effect of the radiation cloud that hit areas around Gävle and Umeå the hardest in the mid-1980s.
According to Martin Tondel, the scientist leading the study, radiation in these areas is still regarded “much higher than normal levels”, while it drops drastically in Stockholm and southern areas.
“This is a follow up to our previous studies, which showed that out of 22,400 cases of cancer, 849 were directly related to radiation until 1996.
We used different methodologies and studied different causes of cancer and still got similar results,” he tells The Local.
Sorry if my post didn’t show clear enough that I completely agree with the assumption that the delayed fallout effects of the Chernobyl disaster are something that have to be considered for many years to come, especially in countries like Sweden and Bulgaria which were among the most affected.
About Lechkov - I explained all this just because you mentioned it in the very beginning of your post, as if it’s something important. Otherwise I wouldn’t mention at all such a ridiculous explanation about someone's baldness.
As for Styllian Petrov - the city of Montana is situated in the most affected by the radiation area of Bulgaria, so it’s perfectly possible that his illness is provoked by the Chernobyl disaster. even without any Chernobyl’s children around. But no one can say this for sure - unfortunately cancer is still not very well researched, so unless someone was in the very center of the disaster, it’s impossible to tell for sure if one got a cancer because of Chernobyl or due to something else.
I don't know what level of certainty you are looking for, there is nothing certain in life that you can rest your elbow upon. Sometimes you have to do the donkey work to make up your own mind, based on your own experience, your observations, your research into others' educated research and then use your rationality. In Sweden the facts have been researched, the data has been triple/quadruple checked, the cluster radiation levels are evidenced, the incidence of radiation exposed cancers in those cluster areas has been evidenced. Can it be proven as an absolute truth that this was caused by Chernobyl? I don't know nor do i care about that argument.
That report on Bulgaria I linked, points the finger to an inadequate and secretive government whose official levels of testing were inadequate and downright faulty. According to the Bulgarian team doctor the radiation levels were kept secret deliberately thereby exposing Montana populace to varying levels of radiation. Don't think that I am just focussing on Bulgaria, a similar scenario was played out in Sweden and Finland. In Finland there is no official information released on the exposure levels the population was exposed to. In Sweden there are the usual 'scientific' sceptics, chernobyl deniers, who claim there is no proof that the fall out was responsible for the cancers in the cluster areas.
Chernobyl related cancers have been extremely well researched, it is ridiculous to deny that.
Pleased to see this is getting a blu ray release, at least in UK.
I've been holding off seeing any of this until the US Blu-Ray comes out at the start of October. It's a very expensive edition for some reason.
I buckled today and watched a clip on YouTube. It was a grab bag of about 4 scenes I flicked through.
I was taken aback by the fact that not only do they all speak English, which I suppose was inevitable, but they all sounded like they where from the UK too. not a hint of any Russian accents at all. I found this quite offputting.
Now just thinking about renting the series for under a tenner on a streaming platform and that's it, rather than £30+ on disc.
The accents thing has been discussed a lot in this thread. I think the concensus (and certainly my opinion) is that it seems weird for a few minutes but then you forget about it. I definitely feel it was the right decision. A few dodgy Russian accents would have damaged the series far more seriously imo.
Also, why the US bluray? The UK set is under £20 on Amazon. Is there more on the US set or anything?
The accent thing was a conscious choice on behalf of the writer & director. They were mindful of everyone adopting comical attempts at Ukrainian and Russian accents, risking the dialogue and impact being distracted from.
Craig Mazin, writer/creator, has done a fantastic series of podcasts accompanying the series that go into his thinking and rationales for how the series was produced and the creative decisions that were taken (and dropped). The Chernobyl Podcast on Apple Podcasts
By all means rent the series first (NowTV will let you stream it for around a fiver, if not for free if you try the 1 month trial). Hopefully you’ll get be able to get past the lack of actual geographic appropriate accents and enjoy what is a phenomenally well written and acted show - no word of hyperbole.
The UK disc was just rushed and thrown out
Chernobyl Blu-ray - Emily Watson
One can look at statistical probability, take readings, document clusters that’s how it is done in these situations. Cancer is very well research the problem is that there’s no way to tag the radioactivity and follow its course as it damages body tissue. It’s like sun exposure- we know it causes skin cancer but we can’t pinpoint the exact moment it occurs or occurred.
Wow, thanks for that, sounds like the Region B is a real dog's dinner. (The cover is also terrible - it looks like an unofficial video game expansion pack.)
I'm OK with minor picture differences, but PAL speed up in this day and age, especially on Bluray, is totally unacceptable
It's essential television, the highest rated show ever on IMDB, just won 10 awards at the Emmys.
The accent thing is a complete non issue imo. It doesn't make any difference to the power of the drama or ever take you put of the scene.
Agree. To me, if these actors had been trying to speak with a Russian accent, it would've been off putting. Despite the lack of Russian it works. Otherwise, you might as well shoot it with Russian actors and include subtitles.
As stated way earlier in the thread, the accent makes no difference. Even if they had used Russian accents the actors are still speaking English. As long as its uniform, who cares?
"Sanks you berry mush, Comrade"
Honestly, I would have been turned off by it if the dialogue was all in Russian. Visually, I thought the series was amazing.
For anyone in the UK (or Germany) that was disappointed with the botched Blu-Ray release, the good news is that its available in France in its proper form.
They are region free discs and are on the HBO label, and are available at half the price of the US version, even though they are the same discs
https://www.avforums.com/threads/chernobyl-26-07-2019.2234976/page-4Chernobyl - 26/07/2019
Are there any extras on the BD that make it essential? Otherwise its available (for those who can access it) on HBO on demand or its streaming platform.
I’m disappointed that Billy Bob Thornton does not have a starring role in this series. Could’a been epic.
Good lord, he would have absolutely ruined it. Thank god he was wasn’t included in this.
(Did this comment go completely over my head re Goliath ?)
my wife and I enjoyed this series very much...looking forward to the Russian version...
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