China HiFi goes Prime Time

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by avanti1960, Mar 21, 2021.

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  1. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Tube integrated amplifier brands like Muzishare, Willsenton, Doge, Cayin etc. are making the rounds of Online video reviewers and are without question delivering the goods- high sound quality for very reasonable money.
    They are made in China and shipped directly to consumers also for reasonable cost and delivery times.
    The undercurrent of China HiFi has existed for quite a while, mostly DACs, low cost amplification clones, headphone amps and bare bones amplifier boards.
    However it seems safe to say we might be on the verge of a ChiFi revolution as popularity continues to grow for a wider range of audio products.
    Long time importer Grant Fidelity, China direct websites as well as mainstream online retailers like Amazon, Ali Express and Ebay all have easy direct access to any number of Made-in-China audio products from step up transformers to speakers.
    Low cost labor and parts are flaming the revolution and although it is a boon to audio consumers the effects on the industry are yet to be determined.
     
    CoryG85, Frank Bisby, L.P. and 10 others like this.
  2. wwaldmanfan

    wwaldmanfan Born In The 50's

    Location:
    NJ
    Plenty of good stuff made here. Buy American-made products, and support American workers.
     
  3. mds

    mds Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    I have been a happy owner of Opera Consonance equipment for many years. The equipment is top quality, attention to detail fantastic, there weight is heavier than most similar equipment and the pieces have not given me any issue in the many years I have owned them. Both the tube mono blocks and CD player are built like tanks and sound wonderful.
     
    Lowgroove, Simoon and jusbe like this.
  4. Luc.Benac

    Luc.Benac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Burnaby, Canada
    China can make excellent products with some help on certain fine points of design and usability. Until they are not excellent anymore. If there is no permanent, never ending and very tight control over the materials and parts sourced and used in these products. Usually it takes a couple of expats in key senior positions on site to enforce these rules....a bit of generalization but very often true based on working for years with teh Chinese market (both ways).
     
    wrat, Encore, KT88 and 3 others like this.
  5. Jacob29

    Jacob29 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kansas City
    I don't think anybody buys China hifi because they think America doesn't make good stuff. Audio Research McIntosh PS audio is just out of reach for a lot of people
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
    Dan The Man1, Tommyboy, wrat and 45 others like this.
  6. Swann36

    Swann36 A widower finding solace in music

    Location:
    Lincoln, UK
    A lot of good Britsh made stuff available too
     
  7. Limelakephoto

    Limelakephoto Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oshawa Ont. Canada
    Yep I agree ! Lots of good stuff made in Canada and other non sweat shop countries as well !
     
  8. jbmcb

    jbmcb Forum Resident

    Location:
    Troy, MI, USA
    I'm sure the equipment is top notch for the dollar. The issue I've seen with Chinese made gear is support. Remember all of those really excellent CD players Shanling made about ten years ago? From their web site, Shanling appears not to remember them at all. No product support pages, no downloads, no manuals. It's like they never existed.

    I can still go to Musical Fidelity's web site and download the manual for the X-10D, a product introduced 25 years ago. As minimal a level of support that is, it's much better than Shanling's.
     
  9. mds

    mds Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    This may be true of some companies but making a generalization like this is wrong. The company my equipment comes from does not fall into that category. The product that Opera-Consonance makes is not cheap either.

    Concerning someone's comment about "sweat shop labor", hmm, from my reading China has one of the largest and fastest growing middle classes in the world. We should look in our own backyard before making statements like that. I do not think the USA's minimum wage is something to brag about. In my opinion it is pretty close to sweat shop labor wages ($7.25 an hour) and many companies don't keep these employees on full time so they then get away without paying for benefits. Remember also in the Asian countries the cost of living and in particular food is a lot less expensive than it is here. I am not saying that the Chinese government is a good example of good government, I think more in terms of their horrible human rights and government censorship as their main issues needing to be addressed now and not sweat shop labor wages. If someone would not want to purchase from China due to human right violations that would be a more valid issue than the wages they pay.
     
  10. Noel Patterson

    Noel Patterson Music Junkie

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    While I endorse buying Canadian/American, given the relatively low hourly rates, lower hours (lack of full time positions) and continually rising cost of living, an audiophile on a budget will turn to more budget friendly options.
     
  11. rockin_since_58

    rockin_since_58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Simi Valley, CA
    I have no problem with China produced audio gear other that having to deal with some sort of failure that might need to go back to the factory to resolve. If I could get passed this, I would be very interested in a Doge 7 Clarity DAC.
     
  12. ls35a

    ls35a Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, Idaho
    China builds gear with whatever parts they can get that week. You can get a good piece but buying the same piece a month later? Might not be the same.
     
  13. BayouTiger

    BayouTiger Forum Resident

    People in manufacturing here are generally not minimum wage earners, and the emerging middle class in China are not the ones building these products. Very much an apples and grapefruits comparison. Most manufacturers I deal with figure their manufacturing costs for Mexico as one quarter to one tenth of US cost and China at less than half of than. At one point China manufacturing cost was as low as 1/10 of US cost. That number was quoted to me some year back and I am sure it has closed a good bit , but the difference is still huge.

    I should say that I have a Cayin amp and it is a fine piece of gear and I consider its quality as excellent, not up there with my ARC gear, but right there with Rogue and others.
     
    wrat, sushimaster, muletrane and 3 others like this.
  14. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Apparently those YouTube videos have caused orders for Chinese Amps to overwhelm the makers so many are not available for purchase at present. Maybe they can be a good deal cheaper for a certain level of valve amp that may be easy to repair. However there are good UK/US solid state amps for the same or less and even a good Japanese valve amp such as Leben does not cost a great deal more. Then we have these crappy clone speakers that emulate £2K product for £500. Likely no better than UK and US branded models that are made in China at same price but have a dealer network and home country service facilities. Generally in the long term a false economy. Also factor in the deteriorating political and trading relationship with the west and it is buyer beware.
     
    Satrus, TimB and Dubmart like this.
  15. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden MichiGort Staff

    Location:
    Livonia, MI
    Folks. No problem advocating for products from your favorite nation-states, but this is not the forum to discuss politics or call for regime change, 'kay?
     
    Jim Hodgson, bhazen, Drew769 and 22 others like this.
  16. Sedwards

    Sedwards Senior Member

    My first trip into tube audio began over a couple of decades ago with Ming Da and Shanling and some other brands and I always had a very positive experience, though understood back than that QC was a risk. Guess I got lucky. But they were bargains for what they delivered.

    As far as the boycotting them because of political/social reasons: while I understand (but don't agree) with the emotional sentiment, if you want to retain any shred of consistent commitment to that stance you'd better start emptying out your closets, drawers, cabinets and the rest of the house.

    This women tried to do it almost 20 years ago when US imports from China were even less and couldn't make it work. And then there's this:
    A recent Japanese TV show which conducted a survey on Chinese products has astonished those who looked down upon Chinese manufacturing. At first, the respondents all expressed a demeaning attitude toward Chinese products, saying they’d never buy them. But obviously, the labels on their clothes which say “made in China” are indeed a slap in the face. The TV show later did a test: Clear all the China-made products from a Japanese household. Four hours later, 619 pieces of Chinese products were removed, and even the clothes of the house owner had to be taken off. As a matter of fact, Japanese not only need Chinese products when they are alive, but also after their death – over 90% of the coffins sold in Japan are made in China.

    And while you're emptying out your house, you might also want to clear out your garage. There's a good chance that the vehicle sitting out there has parts in it that are not only made in China, but come right out of Wuhan itself, "China's Motor City."

    Forgive any typos in the above. I'm trying to get this posted fast because if we're jettisoning Chinese products, my computer (90.6% of the global supply) will have to be out on the curb for tomorrow's pick up. Next to my cellphone (70.6% of global supply of smartphones).
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
    Scott222C, Lowand, jmpsmash and 8 others like this.
  17. Limelakephoto

    Limelakephoto Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oshawa Ont. Canada
    Not saying we all have to buy domestic hifi. I own an OPPO....a glow amp one...a pair of mirage speakers etc. Made in China. My big problem is with companies make it there to make mega profits instead of healthy profits. That's all. Just my two cents. I have no desire to start arguments here. Just so you know I am not interpreting your post as an argument either.
     
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  18. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    I don't know if this is true, but it's something I've considered, and even mentioned when I recommended a piece of Chinese made gear.
     
    Tim 2 likes this.
  19. Luc.Benac

    Luc.Benac Forum Resident

    Location:
    Burnaby, Canada
    Far from me to start an argument either. I have a beautiful 4x5 camera hand-made by a small Chinese company, a set of amps made in the USA and most if not all of my clothes are made in Canada and France. It is a balancing act.
    My first choice when available is to look at things made in Canada, USA and Europe but I cannot in all honesty and budget discount made in Asia either.
     
    KT88 likes this.
  20. Limelakephoto

    Limelakephoto Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oshawa Ont. Canada
    By the way...for anyone who wants to know. I drive a subaru made in Indiana...I am wearing shoes made by new balance in the USA...my sweater is made in Canada with USA cotton..same as my t shirt and my sweat pants...my overalls are made in Oklahoma with USA cotton....my watch is made in the USa..
    My socks are made in Canada...my underwear is made 35 mins from my house....I do practice what I preach ! I am a label reader and I do call and email companies and find out where parts are made and why.....I am typing this on a cell phone made in North america/ Mexico.....
     
  21. Sedwards

    Sedwards Senior Member

    Hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but no, your Subaru is not "made in Indiana," though it may be assembled there. From parts supplied by Subaru in Japan. Who gets them from China. Love Subarus - have an Outback and two Foresters in the family:
    Subaru itself does not have production bases in China but its tier-one parts suppliers run factories there, the firm said. Okada did not disclose the specific numbers but said Subaru uses “quite a lot” of parts from China to assemble cars at its plants in Japan and the United States.....“To be honest, it’s impossible to manufacture cars without China,” said Toshiaki Okada, chief financial officer at Subaru Corp., at a news conference Wednesday.
     
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  22. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    The Chinese build good stuff and quality is improving. My issue is they respect no patents or copyrights. It's not the people, it's their government.

    They'll buy a 50 mil $ mining machine or power turbine or transformer and reverse engineer it. It likely took some manufacturer a decade of R&D and testing to get it right.
    They can duplicate it in months. You can't sue because they recognize no authorities.

    If this can be worked out some of their advantage will go away but overall things will be better for all parties.
     
    bluesky, danielbravo, LarryP and 11 others like this.
  23. Limelakephoto

    Limelakephoto Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oshawa Ont. Canada
    Very true.
     
    Doc Diego likes this.
  24. Limelakephoto

    Limelakephoto Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oshawa Ont. Canada
    Chinese build some stunning stuff build some stuff that we would domestically have a hard time matching price or quality wise at any markup high or low. Btw my father was an engineer and master tech with subaru.....so I know most of what is Chinese in my car. I would rather see you or your kids in a job assembling stuff at a great wage then a big corporation making mega profit off sweatshop labor. Example.....my wife bought my little boys three pairs of underwear for 18$ plus taxes at walmart. I can buy the exact same underwear 27 pairs for 12$ on aliexpress from a reseller. A bit over 50 cents a pair shipped to my house. I can buy them on Alibaba for about 32 cents a pair..... For 1000 pairs.Profiteering is what I hate ! Especially on the honest hardworking persons back !
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
    KT88 likes this.
  25. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    INDEED!
     
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