Class D amplification?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Khorn, Dec 3, 2020.

  1. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    I'll have to look but the standard commentary seems to be 50 to 100 hours. Constanine Soo our editor bought their top integrated and one of our other reviewers has something from them as well. And they seem to win some sort of award at TAS every year for the last 7-8 years. I need them largely for review purposes in case I need more substantial power than my 8 watt Empress Silver monoblocks can provide.

    I initially was seeking the Parasound A23+ which I initially liked and still do but not quite as much for music I listen to more often. Part of the blame could be the ATC speakers which tends to dissect recordings rather than play the music. Plus the Parasound dealer noted that all the classic series amps he was selling were failing to bad transformer design. He said get the A series - fine. BUT, they only come with a 1 year warranty in Hong Kong which is pretty crappy for a SS amplifier! The Warranty is 5 years in the USA. So this sort of garbage puts me off a bit coupled with not really being "involved" in the music. The Wyred4Sound room wasn't perfect but it was toe-tapping and engaging and for the money - that was pretty good. I liked their prototype speakers too - ugly and large but sounded good - probably not saleable with their look however.

    The Wyred4Sound units are nice and tiny which is suitable for HK sized flats and they also have a voltage switch so when I return to Canada I can still use them. Parasound also had that feature.

    I am still reviewing an M1 Phono Preamp from Audio Note so in terms of price the mAmps are more of a suitable match (something most people can afford). The expensive stuff usually sounds quite good - it's getting the most for the least that interests me. If it goes well and my tax issue I am having with the government here goes my way I may buy their mPre amp as a match.
     
    Khorn likes this.
  2. Khorn

    Khorn Dynagrunt Obversarian Thread Starter

    That’s very strong but the proof is in the listening.
     
  3. Mike70

    Mike70 Forum Resident

    Yes, totally. Many people says that Pass are like the "tubes of transistors" ... sweet sounding but with lean character, not "powerful" sound.
    Not the best for people that likes rock / pop or more detailed / visceral sound.

    And class D (from what I read in many threads) are in the other side of the spectrum ... detail, dynamics, effortless sound.

    Maybe we can check that with the experience of the friends here in the thread :righton:
     
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  4. Khorn

    Khorn Dynagrunt Obversarian Thread Starter

    That’s the impression I’ve been sort forming over the last bit and I’d love confirmation. I’m hoping that the newer generations are indeed moving in that direction and are very close to “prime time” if not already there. Evolving Class D should be a major development in music amplification.
     
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  5. chipcalzada

    chipcalzada Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Philippines
    A few days ago I had the opportunity to listen to a Class D Lindemann Power + Pre combination and I was really surprised at how good it sounded. We compared it to a Class AB Modwright KWH 225i integrated amp, and while the Modwright sounded better, the Lindemann surprisingly held its own. Someone mentioned on this forum that Class D amps have gone a long way in terms of SQ and I 100% agree after hearing the Lindemann.
     
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  6. Mike70

    Mike70 Forum Resident

    On the east europe there're many new little companies with a very good quality/price ratio, the most famous is pro-ject. But you can check Apollon or Hattor.

    Hattor Audio
    (The balanced preamp and the ncore 500 based class d power are really beautiful)

    https://www.apollonaudio.com/
    (very good metal enclosures and even Purifi power amplifier)

    And the prices are to die for, compare to the class d amplifiers of the big brands ... the cheapest I see it's the nad c268.
     
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  7. blair207

    blair207 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Fife, Scotland
    Cyrus brought out the Stereo 200 a few years ago. It sounds great. Every discussion I've read about it is positive. It is expensive but cheaper than the monoblock class A amps which it is an alternative to.
     
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  8. DavidR

    DavidR Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Very nice, they will need and good run in period, my D amp needed 300 hours!
     
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  9. DavidR

    DavidR Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    You hit the nail on the head, the pass was just a tad laid back for my rock music.
     
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  10. DavidR

    DavidR Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    The trouble is people are still jumping to conclusions based on out dated experiences with old class D, a pity as they are missing out on some phenomenal pieces!
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
    Khorn likes this.
  11. phantasmagoria

    phantasmagoria Lost Child

    Location:
    Vale of Glamorgan
    As a rather casual listener rather than a fully-fledged audiophile, I’ve only recently become aware of the distinction between amplifier classes.

    Having recently upgraded my 20+ year old Tannoy R2s to a pair of KEF R3s, I felt my existing Marantz PM6006 didn’t have the power to drive them at their best so I went hunting for a new amp. It was only when I narrowed my choices down to two - Peachtree Nova 150 and NAD C388 that I noticed they were both specified as Class D. I ended up going with the C388 (the addition of the BluOS and HDMI modules made it perfect for my requirements as a driver for my 2-channel TV setup and a streamer, as well as my P6 turntable) and am really pleased with it. My living room is only medium sized, but I’m really happy with the delivery at even the relatively modest volumes I usually play it at - feels a fuller and more detailed sound than I was getting at that volume previously.

    I was a little concerned when I started reading a lot of the comments on here and elsewhere about Class D amps, but it’s reassuring to hear how they’re evolving and learning more about the technology involved. I’ve also decided to just trust my ears - my system sounds no less musical to me than it did before. It’s a rather neutral setup which might not suit everyone, but it’s ideal for me.
     
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  12. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    There are plenty of cost savings...on the design and manufacturing side.
     
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  13. Mike70

    Mike70 Forum Resident

    I have the R3 ... congrats, spectacular speakers! Surely they will go higher with more current available ... because the impedance drops to 3.2 ohms ... it's not an "easy" to drive speaker. Even they work with few watts, watts are voltage * current ... so a low wattage amplifier generally have less current, you need to go to high end low wattage amplifiers to have good current available.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
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  14. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I've had Class D amps from Wyred 4 Sound in my system for a number of years. Have two SX-500s (front speakers), ST-500 (center speaker) and ST-250 (surrounds). I've been very happy with the overall sound quality, amount of clean power and the ease in which they can be moved around. Not 100% sure which modules are used in each amp but a review of the SX-1000s by 6moons in 2008 indicates B&O ICEpower analog switching power modules. Not sure if those are the modules used in the amps I have though.

    From what I've read here in this thread and other discussions on Class D amps is that the improvement in Class D amps and their implementation has been vastly improved. It seems when Class D was first introduced it was not well received in regard to comparisons of more conventionally designed amps. It's great to see that Class D amps are being well received now. As much as the W4S amps in my system are of an older design I have no desire to change them out. They just sound great and in my non-technical opinion are for a better word very transparent.

    I bought all of the W4S amps used at substantial savings. I find W4S to be an excellent company as I recently contacted them with a question about the Black Friday sale they were having. I was inquiring about the STI-1000 that was on sale for $1299 from $2499. I was thinking of buying the STI-1000 to replace the SX-500s and STP-SE preamp. EJ from W4S responded quickly over the weekend. His opinion was that the STI-1000 has more power and better power modules than the SX-500s. But that the preamp section of the STI-1000 was not on a par of the STP-SE. I appreciated his fast response and total honesty. With that information it was an easy decision to stay with the STP-SE and SX-500 combo. The W4S Black Friday sale ends today.

    6moons audio reviews: Wyred4Sound SX-1000 monos
    STI-v2 Series
     
  15. rill

    rill Well-Known Member

    Location:
    PA
    I too have just changed over to a Class D integrated amp from a Yamaha A-S3000, which I liked very much. I wanted more horsepower, but was tired of the expensive giant heavy amps.
    I decided to get the Wyred 4 Sound STI 500 V2. I did also buy the Kimber wire and WBT speaker binding post upgrade. This a big profit maker for them, but given the great sale price, I am fine with it. I also bought the fancy aluminum remote, which is quite nice.

    I have been burning in the amp for the last week, so I haven't done a lot of serious listening. Two observations so far...
    The bass, as expected, is quite good. The delineation of individual notes is really nice, especially when a bassist has his hand way up on the neck. Sometimes those low notes can sort of run together, but not with this amp.
    The real surprise is how smooth the midrange and high frequencies are. This was the big concern I had switching to Class D. I have read that the the ICE power modules have this characteristic compared to other Class D modules, but I think like dac chips, the implementation is very important as well.
    Here, I have to give my compliments to EJ at Wyred. I have owned the Dac2 V2 SE dac for several years and I think he did a great job with that. (Regardless of what ASR says )
    I really like it.
    So... This my first foray into Class D. I'm not saying it's the best, but so far, I'm enjoying it very much.
    I imagine it's going to get even better over the next couple of weeks, which is icing on the cake!
     
  16. fish

    fish Senior Member

    Location:
    NYS, USA
    Me too! The KI Ruby replaced 2 SET tube amps I’ve loved. Just better in all ways.
    And they don’t heat the house! My McAlisters literally can’t be used in the summertime. Way too much heat!!

    I’ve listened to a few D amps over the years. NuForces were thunderous!

    Marantz blew me away! Ken listened when he built.
     
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  17. Khorn

    Khorn Dynagrunt Obversarian Thread Starter

    Pass some of it down to us.
     
  18. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Some, like Nord and Purifi seem to be doing that. The best value from class D is achieved through DIY, same for speakers.
     
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  19. unclefred

    unclefred Coastie with the Moastie

    Location:
    Oregon Coast
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  20. tIANcI

    tIANcI Wondering when the hifi madness will end

    Location:
    Malaysia
    I had the XTZ Edge ... it is good. Brilliant for speakers that are warm sounding. Gives them more life. Can’t wait to try the new 400 when it’s out.
     
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  21. unclefred

    unclefred Coastie with the Moastie

    Location:
    Oregon Coast
    the 400 looks very interesting with balanced inputs and a loop, more power as well. The input impedance is a little low for using a passive like I do w/o a buffer.
     
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  22. tIANcI

    tIANcI Wondering when the hifi madness will end

    Location:
    Malaysia
    Question is whether it’s a true balanced amp?
     
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  23. muletrane

    muletrane Forum Resident

    Location:
    NEPA
    Loving my Peachtree Nova 150 so far!
     
  24. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Which savings are you referring to?
     
  25. E.Baba

    E.Baba Forum Resident

    I've got 3.
    My vintage speakers are busted and so is my vintage integrated Sansui.
     

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