Class-D Integrated Amplifiers

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by riddlemay, Jan 31, 2019.

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  1. king of fuh

    king of fuh Active Member

    Location:
    Fuhville
  2. The Pioneer Elite SX-S30 looks nice but how does it sound?
    I have a Pioneer A/V receiver, an SC-LX76 from 2012 that it was sold in the US with the Elite badge,mine is an European model. I've been a Marantz guy for all my life but after listening to it on a demonstration show I fell in love with its sound and bought one straight away, on the very show.
    I've been exceptical of Class D sound before but the Pioneer SC LX76 sold me, it sounds equally well with movies and music. My main source is a Goldring GR-1 (with several improvements) connected to an EAR834P "clone" tube Phono preamp and the Pioneer Receiver very much preserves both the analogue sound of vinyl records and the sound of tubes.
    It's a 9.1 receiver but I have it set up as 5.1 with the three front speakers/channels bi-amped. This is actually more of a double biwiring using two of the receiver's power stages for each front speaker. With my 1996 600 series 601 speakers (4 of them, two for the front channels and two for the surrounds) plus a CC6 center speaker I get loads of power.
    The SC-LX76 wasn't cheap back in 2012, 2000 Euros but it's worthy every cent.
     
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  3. soundboy

    soundboy Senior Member

    The Class D amps of Pioneer have been getting good reviews for years. I may be wrong but the XS-S30 seems to be the first Pioneer 2 channel component with Class D amps.
     
    Kiko1974 likes this.
  4. It wasn't cheap but it sounds outstanding both with movies audio tracks and music. My previous Marantz SR-7000 receiver from 2000 sounded great with movies but only got the job done with music, don't take me wrong, it sounded well with music, but nothing like the Pioneer SC-LX76 which invites to listen to music with it and tht is saying a lot about an A/V receiver.
     
  5. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Do any of the various integrated amps mentioned so far feature an old-style tape monitor loop? My Rogue Sphynx (1st ed.) has gone blooey, and I'm considering replacing rather than repairing it. I do a lot of needle dropping, and being able to treat the computer like a tape deck would be helpful.
     
  6. Bathory

    Bathory 30 yr Single Malt, not just for breakfast anymore

    Location:
    usa
    Tried class “d”
    Not for me. If you like more power.

    I do no less than class”H” or A/AB
     
  7. BayouTiger

    BayouTiger Forum Resident

    my Nova 150 has a processor loop that I use to connect my DA-3000 for Needledrops.
     
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  8. Melvin

    Melvin Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Recently, I was looking for a lower-powered class d integrated to pair with my Omega's. I ended up purchasing the Marantz HD-AMP1. Plenty of connections -- 1 coax, 2 optical, 2 USB, and 2 analog inputs, and subwoofer out. (No preamp out, but I don't care.) It has a Hypex UcD amp module and ESS Sabre DAC, neither of which are SOTA -- not surprising considering the price. Point being, it sounds really good and can't help but wonder how their higher-end models sound. Might be worth checking out.
     
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  9. unclefred

    unclefred Coastie with the Moastie

    Location:
    Oregon Coast
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  10. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    Thanks for the tip! :tiphat:
     
  11. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Class D is normally a cost cutting exercise. Usually using switch mode power supplies. You can get a lot of specified watts in a small light space. Obvious advantage when getting 7 channels of amplification and loads more facilities that come in an AV receiver. Would stick to class A/B for serious stereo amps using large toroidal transformers. Real driving ability rather than high watts on the spec sheet. I would concede class D does bass well and works fine in active subwoofers.
     
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  12. Budunka

    Budunka Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston TX
    Big fan of Class D amps. Moved from Parasound A21 to NuPrime/NuForce reference monoblocks with no regrets. Kept my Parasound JC1 preamp. Smooth balanced tube like sound with plenty of power. Light weight, small footprint and low heat generation. For sure you should demo some Class D options to get a feel for the "sound", but either way; highly recommended.
     
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  13. coolsound

    coolsound Forum Resident

    just bought a SMSL A8 ($550 chinese Class D ) because it' heating far less than my sugden A21se signature ( $3000 english class A) for summer time. this little amplifier is amazing and honestly make me think about selling my sugden.
     
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  14. siebrand

    siebrand music lover

    Location:
    Italy
    who knows one day maybe they will sound even better, these "class D".
    for now, however, when I listen to one, I feel like putting on a sweater.
    Woolen.
    Even in summer
     
    terzinator likes this.
  15. Ivand

    Ivand Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX
     
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  16. Mike from NYC

    Mike from NYC Senior Member

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    That is your mistaken opinion - my Rogue Medusa has a huge toroidal transformer and class D is not a cost cutting exercise but a more efficient way to power speakers.

    I'll match my Medusa's sound with any Class A/B amp you may own within its price category and to about twice its price, at least.
     
  17. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Note I used the words NORMALLY and USUALLY. Not saying it's universal. I can't see the point in high end Class D when most people who hear them prefer Class A/B, other than satisfy a Green agenda. Most of them are smaller / lighter in weight which must save on transportation costs and maybe appeal in saving rack space.
     
  18. Standingstones

    Standingstones Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Central PA
    This would not be class 'D', but I have been using the Rotel RA-1592 200 wpc integrated amp for the past two years. This is in a secondary system I have. This amp is 37 lbs. and has most of the bells and whistles a person could want. If the price is too high Rotel has other units I believe.
     
  19. cdgenarian

    cdgenarian Forum Resident

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Size and Weight. I suppose that, for most, these would be little more than afterthoughts, but after dealing with a component that had to be returned for warranty repair in the original packaging (with mandatory everything, even remote+batteries, and manual included in a large box), with me paying for the return shipping (close to $100), I am liking what I am reading about many diminutive (comparatively) 5-10 pound Class D amps. Easy to move, less extensive packaging, much reduced heat, easier to repair...yeah, I could go for that.
     
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  20. Daedalus

    Daedalus I haven't heard it all.....

    The only experience I have had with Class D amplification is the inclusion of a class D amp in my older Volvo XC90( the model iteration prior to the makeover). The sound of that system was dull and lifeless to my ears. Of course, there could have been any number of reasons for that other than “class D”. But when I hear Class D associated with amps my experience triggers negative associations. But some folks have had great reactions to Class D amps so like anything else there probably are many factors at play.
     
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  21. macster

    macster Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Diego, Ca. USA
    I went from a CJ PV5 and MF2500A (still have it) to a Wyred 4 Sound STI-10000 and haven't looked back. The sound is similar, and I have two tape loops. The only thing that I had to compromise was, I had to purchase a separate phono amp which was also a Wyred4 Sound product. Besides sounding and looking good, if they need to go in for repair, I can use the same shipping case that I had made for my cassette decks.

    M~
     
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  22. Mike from NYC

    Mike from NYC Senior Member

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    Funny, a lot of reviewers of the various Class D amps I own Rogue Medusa (w/Mullards), Bel Canto REF 600 and Audio Research 150.2 (technically a Class K amp) all rated them the equal of similarly priced A/B amps and a few have even said they sound better than many A/B amps but the Class D amps generally have a far higher output level.

    I had and still own many A/B amps and receivers, including a NAD M3, (a Class A integrated as reviewed by Fremer), and the first Class D integrated I bought simply blew it away in terms of soundstaging, air and detail when I installed either the Mullards or Ciftie tubes I upgraded to with the Rogue Pharaoh. No contest and the bass was much, much better too as was the midrange when I used the Mullards.

    YOU tell me what A/B amp can be tuned using tubes to match your system.

    'Most people' are 'followers of fashion' and the trends/ideas put forth by others. I never ever followed any trend or was induced by what other people think - I am fully capable of thinking and hearing for myself.

    Besides, 'most people' know squat and I depend on the real experts to help guide me on what piece(s) of equipment to buy. I do extensive research before plunking my $$ down (although I made a huge mistake buying a Sony HAPS-Z1ES). I also own a pretty extensive reference book collection on all aspects of audio from microphones to acoustic engineering to speaker design and crossover design - all to help me make decisions and educate me.
     
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  23. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    "The real experts". Now that is a hoot!

    Reference materials are nice...

    But, since I don't design speakers, crossovers, amplifiers, I'm content to go with those who do design and manufacture them.

    I just stay with the listening part.

    If I like how it sounds, it works for me.
     
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  24. riverrat

    riverrat Senior Member

    Location:
    Oregon
    Following this thread with interest since my vintage Sansui integrated AU D11 II (130wpc) seems to be biting the dust. It was fully recapped 12 years ago and has served me well, but is kind of finicky and I'm reticent to dump more $$ into it.

    I've been looking at power amps from Odyssey and Van Alstine, to pair (for now) with a refurbished Yamaha C4 pre. Under this scenario, I would upgrade my pre-amp, perhaps to a tube model, as funds allow.

    But developments in Class D are intriguing. The main concerns seem to be with the potential for harshness in the highs, but my speakers (Polk LSiM 705) are not bright. They do seem to need a fair amount of grunt (rated to 250wpc) so Class D is appealing..
     
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  25. I own a Pioneer SC LX-76 AVR from 2012 (sold in the US on the Elite Range), it's a 9.1 receiver pre-Atmos era. It uses Class D amplification and it allows to bi-amp the two main channels on a 7.1 configuration or the three front channels on a 5.1 set up. It also has an ACTUAL Pure Direct mode that disenganges ALL digital processing (it has an actual physical internal analogue volume control) and in playing stereo music or multichannel music (either from SACD or BD-Audio) with the Pure Direct mode on this AVR sounds like a charm. Its tone,timbre, imaging, lack of distorsion (each speaker is feed by two of the Class D power stages capable of 125 Watts), its smooth sound and its sense of infinite dinamic range make it one of the best Hi Fi components I've ever bought, and being 46 I've bought quite a lot.
    I just love this AVR and its sound and despite playing plenty of records (with a tube Phono preamp in between) it sounds outstanding in stereo, I don't miss a dedicated stereo amp at all.
    For me well engineered Class D can sound as good or better than Class A/B, being Class D that is more power saving friendly, can generate plenty of power while remaining cooler and take less space.
     
    cdgenarian likes this.
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