Classic Heavy Metal is Hard Rock

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Silky Johnson, Mar 6, 2023.

  1. dunce

    dunce Local jester!

    Location:
    San Diego
    Warmer: Classic Heavy Metal is just Rock.
     
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  2. Evethingandnothing

    Evethingandnothing Forum Resident

    Location:
    Devon
    I guess she ran with the gang. But the Rollers were never Glam.
    .....hey that rhymes!
     
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  3. JackOfAllTrades

    JackOfAllTrades It's only my opinion

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    If you are worrying about how to define a genre you are entirely missing the point.
     
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  4. Svetonio

    Svetonio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Serbia
    Actually, it wasn't 'one journalist', but a number of them. As a kid, I used to purchase UK magazines in the seventies, since there was a kiosk in downtown Belgrade where magazines like NME and Melody Maker were sold. Even before the emergence of the NWOBHM, the term "heavy metal" was in use in the UK, albeit not as commonly as "heavy-rock" the term.
    They were regarded as "heavy metal", although Led Zeppelin undoubtedly was considered as a combo because they also played blues-rock, 'Rock' (as a distinct genre, with capital *R*, no *roll*), and acoustic folk-rock tunes, in addition to their heavy-metal songs, like for example Immigrant Song.
    And if we know that the abbreviation NWOBHM stands for New Wave of British Heavy Metal, then that makes sense. If there hadn't been an "old wave" of heavy metal, which included groups like Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep, Rainbow, and so on, when bands like Motörhead and Iron Maiden first came onto the scene, it would simply have been referred to as "heavy metal", without "new wave of".

    [​IMG]
    Creem, 1977

    Indeed, 'cause the terms "hard-rock" (or "heavy-rock", as the British term for the same thing) and "heavy-metal" were synonymous back then, and Blue Öyster Cult were heavy.


    Blue Öyster Cult Flaming Telepaths (from Secret Treaties, 1974)
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2023
  5. Sear

    Sear Dad rocker

    Location:
    Tarragona (Spain)
    Wrong.
    It's heavy metal by definition.
     
  6. blackdograilroad

    blackdograilroad Forum Resident

    Location:
    Devon, UK
    OK, well, your opinions are the last word so no point in further comment.
     
  7. brucewayneofgotham

    brucewayneofgotham Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bunkville
    I will point out
    a local store
    told me
    that he moved the
    Sabbath and Priest albums
    to the general rock section
    just for this reason
    People that want to buy them
    never checked the Metal bins

    And people buying out of the Metal bins
    did not buy them
    though Maiden still sells when
    racked with Metal albums
    so they stay in the Metal section
    and with no doubt
    they are the oldest band in that section
     
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  8. Evethingandnothing

    Evethingandnothing Forum Resident

    Location:
    Devon
    Yeah, all us old Metal fans already got the albums and the new fans have been brainwashed. Ozzy warned of it.
     
  9. Svetonio

    Svetonio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Serbia
    Hey, this is not "my opinion":

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Svetonio

    Svetonio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Serbia
    No, because 'Rock', as a distinct genre (capital *R*, no *roll*), were bands like The Who, The Kinks, The Faces and The Rolling Stones.
     
  11. SFM1965

    SFM1965 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I doubt there's been a genre created which had sufficiently well-defined limits to stand the test of time. Sometimes (as with NWOBHM) it was hugely broad to start with. I've listened to quite a lot of it recently and the variation is massive - much of it a long way from any era's definition of heavy metal.

    Which suggests to me the only practical use of a genre is tied to an era or movement rather than a musical style. In the 1970s Led Zep and AC/DC were heavy metal. Just like in the 60s John Mayall and Fleetwood Mac were R&B. If later generations want to repurpose the name for their own version, there's nothing to stop them. But it doesn't retrospectively rewrite music history.
     
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  12. Svetonio

    Svetonio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Serbia
    Heavy-Metal has not "evolved" [for instance, Rainbow's Stargazer was just as awesome metal song then as it is now] from "old metal", but NWOBHM was actually a blend of speed-metal and punk-rock. That style was called New Wave of British Heavy Metal, as it was emerged in the UK, although it was played even in the former Yugoslavia in the late 1970s; for example, this is a song of Sarajevo's band Vatreni poljubac (transl. "Fiery Kiss") from their debut album released in 1978:


    Vatreni poljubac Nek se zna (from Oh što te volim joj, 1978)
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2023
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  13. douglas mcclenaghan

    douglas mcclenaghan Forum Resident

    Yep. The Beatles are not anywhere near Sabbath in heaviness - lyrically, riffage, tone, etc. They have their own thing. I like the Beatles and Sabbath on their own terms.
     
  14. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Senior Member

    Location:
    Bretagne
    Funny that - last night I zapped the TV onto Sky Arts and Bob Dylan at Newport in 1963 came up. There he was pouring out his poetry on stage and my wife (who is unfamiliar with a lot of his early work) said "It's just like rap".
     
  15. Evethingandnothing

    Evethingandnothing Forum Resident

    Location:
    Devon
    Aye. It could be argued that live versions of Zep's Communication Breakdown and Sabbath's Paranoid have just as much punky energy. I watched some Sabbath live in Paris 1970 recently and the energy was insane. War Pigs, f-in' 'ell!
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2023
  16. Svetonio

    Svetonio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Serbia
    I saw Iron Maiden, as the pioneers of the NWOBHM, on September 6, 1981, at an open-air concert in my hometown of Belgrade:

    [​IMG]
    Steve Harris poses for a photo-reporter on stage at the Belgrade Hippodrome, 1981

    [​IMG]
    Dave Murray checks his amp during sound rehearsal, Belgrade Hippodrome, 1981


    However, if this isn't heavy-metal as well, then I admit that I don't know what heavy-metal is:


    Led Zeppelin Immigrant Song, Sydney 1972 (the audio is from Long Beach, California, the same year)
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2023
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  17. Evethingandnothing

    Evethingandnothing Forum Resident

    Location:
    Devon
    Yeah, Iron Maiden were at the forefront of NWOBHM. I saw them at Reading in 1980. I think Motorhead were pretty instrumental to it's formation as well.

    I certainly won't deny the metal in the Immigrant Song. Top stuff. Great version.
     
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  18. stetsonic

    stetsonic Forum Resident

    Location:
    Finland
    I remember a quote, circa 1973, stating BÖC were "thinking man's heavy metal". I think it's quite aptly said.
     
  19. Svetonio

    Svetonio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Serbia
    Oh man, I know Slade made some sort of comeback at Reading in 1980! Huge fan here. I saw them in April 1979 in Belgrade. It was one of the best concerts I've seen in my life; although there were only 600 of us in the 6,000-seat arena, they played a four-hour concert (four encores included). Well, if it's any consolation, Slade is an example of a band whose music was more or less heavy, but not heavy-metal.
    By the way, in the same arena four years earlier, in March 1975, I saw Deep Purple. It was one of my first concerts ever. And I can testify that Deep Purple were very loud and heavy as hell. This is footage from that concert; not so good sound, but nice as a document anyway:

     
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  20. Evethingandnothing

    Evethingandnothing Forum Resident

    Location:
    Devon
    Yeah, I also saw Slade around that time at Woolwich Polytechnic. Not many people there, great gig though. I went to a Purple Mk2 reunion concert in '84 or '85 but was so drunk that I couldn't remember a thing about it. Probably enjoyed it at the time though.

    I propose the notion that 70's Heavy Metal is Heavy Metal and modern day Metal is a sub-genre or offshoot.
     
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  21. Svetonio

    Svetonio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Serbia
    This video demonstrates how heavy the Blue Öyster Cult were in 1974, despite the poor audio-quality:


    Blue Öyster Cult Career of Evil (live in NYC, 1974)
     
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  22. Alex Yari

    Alex Yari Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast
    I’m happy to call those acts heavy metal. This revisionism is just extreme “2edgy4u” nerdery. Get off my lawn.
     
  23. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product

    Some people's perspective changed.... but that really doesn't mean much
     
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  24. Svetonio

    Svetonio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Serbia
    It will not be out of place to say that growling was first used by John Entwistle in the 1960s, as well as heavy-metal bass. While The Who falls under 'Rock', The Ox' Boris The Spider is the earliest example of heavy-metal song with a growl:


    The Who Boris The Spider (live at Fillmore Eest, 1968)
     
  25. HfxBob

    HfxBob Forum Resident

    Don't forget that your ears have been desensitized over the years. You changed, not the music.
     
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