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Classical Corner Classical Music Corner (thread #21)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by OE3, Jan 18, 2011.

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  1. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I may get the EMI set ...
     
  2. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    The sound and performance is excellent. Should be dirt cheap too.
     
  3. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    There are very few recordings that I would call spiritual, but I wouldn't hesitate to say that about Celi's Bruckner.
     
  4. Bronth

    Bronth Active Member

    Location:
    Riga, Latvia
    Huh, I listened to the same Lenny's disc only 2 days ago. :cheers: Kind of powerful rendition, considering that neither Lenny nor me can be called Bruckner's aficionados. :laugh: Strangely, I'm still trying to dig Bruckner's approach. Some call Mahler "too discrete". Are they kidding?

    OTOH, I'm also really interested in the best renditions of the best Bruckner symphonies. Possibly, I had a bad start since I only got 2 sets of Bruckner symphonies, the first, incomplete, is under Kegel, the second, almost complete, is under Paternostro...
     
  5. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Now playing CD2 from this set for a first listen ...

    [​IMG]
     
  6. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Buy without fear with the stamp of approval from Mr. Piano ... :righton::winkgrin:
     
  7. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member



    6.gif


    Sorry George..it is probably the only thing we do not agree on!

    I am anxious for Jay to compare the Celi to say Wand or Bernstein any other conductor to hear what he thinks.
     
  8. mkolesa

    mkolesa Forum Resident

    furtwangler is essential, particularly his #9, M&A has a 5 disc set of symphonies 4-9 for a good price, but obviously the sound is consistent with live historic performances. walter is also required listening for #9 (with the columbia symphony on sony) and the sound is decent. i'd also highly recommend the von Karajan #8 with the Vienna on DG, and this is from someone who doesn't care for HvK! as has already been pointed out, celibidache is also quite special, although his drawn-out performances are also controversial (barenboim once quipped that celi conducts every movement in the manner that furtwangler conducted a slow movement!). wand is also highly regarded, but i've never heard his performances. jochum is well regarded, but i'm rather indifferent. there are some good horenstein performances of the later symphonies and recordings by klemperer too, but i never think of him in the same breath as bruckner for some reason. bernstein, particularly his later DG performances, is worth hearing, as is Giulini (on BBC). in the historic vein i'd also recommend knappertsbusch and von beinum. Enjoy!
     
  9. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    I guess if you think that a total disregard of tempo markings is OK then so be it!
    Sorry, I love all Bruckner symphonies and Celi is not my bag. Way way too slow. :cheers:

    I just never understood his "transcendent experience" approach to conducting.

    "transcendent experience"= schla01.gif
     
  10. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
  11. Bronth

    Bronth Active Member

    Location:
    Riga, Latvia
    A fantastic set, I revisited the Tchaik-1 (a nice bonus here) and the Rach-2 last night. Rudy and Jansons treat each passage as a small universe of sound viewed through a large telescope - not a single note is missed, not a single climax is mushy. And the red-book sound clearly blows Scherbakov's Tchaik-1 on DVD-A, which I also have, out of water.
     
  12. SBurke

    SBurke Nostalgia Junkie

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Those are some very good recommendations. My personal favorites include Giulino/VPO in Nos. 8 and 9 (DG), Jochum in Nos. 8 and 9 (DG), Bohm/VPO in No. 4 (Decca), Walter/Columbia SO in No. 9 (Sony) and Karajan generally. I have Celi on both DG and EMI, and I'm happy to have them, but I think we're missing something by not hearing those performances live and in the hall. Barenboim has gotten high praise though I have not listened to his set yet.

    For clarification, this is the Jochum release I listen to -- not the same performances as on the box set. Now OOP. :(
     

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  13. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I know, you don't like Celi's Bruckner. We get it! :wave:

    When you consider how many opportunities there are for subjective differences, the fact that we only disagree once is downright scary.

    Personally, when it comes to music, I expect there to be differences, so when they arise, they neither surprise me, nor give rise to bring down the favorites of others. You like what you like, I like what I like. We're both right. :righton:

    One last thing, I try my best not to bad mouth (or worse) things I don't like here. If I shared my real opinion about the stuff I don't like, this thread would be a volcano of flame wars. Seriously. Instead, I just say _________ is not to my taste or I didn't enjoy ________. Instead, I try to focus on what I do enjoy. Luckily, there's plenty of it.
     
  14. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I was going to say this earlier, in response to Jay's query:

    I like Bruckner, but I love Celibidache's Bruckner.
     
  15. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I do not have a single recording by Celi and know nothing about him ...
     
  16. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    George Titner made some great Bruckner recordings, his version of the fourth symphony is something special. I've tended to collect Bruckner in big batches, really like Jochum's box on DGG. The two SACDs of Harnoncourt—the fifth and ninth symphonies—are very good. Gunter Wand's version of the seventh with the Berlin Philharmonic is great in all aspects and would be a good follow-up to the eighth.
     
  17. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Here are my Bruckner's Symphonies cycles

    Gewandhaus Orch Leipzig/Masur
    Dresden Staatskapelle/Jochum
    Cologne Radio Symphony Orchestra/Wand
    Berlin Philharmoniker/Karajan

    I also have another "cycle' with symphonies from (Colin) Davis, Harnoncourt, Haitink and Boulez ...
     
  18. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Two notes: the sound quality in this set of these materials is the best they've ever had, and the performance of the Sixth symphony is missing the first movement.
     
  19. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I have the 5th by Titner on Naxos ...
     
  20. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    Sorry if you thought I was bad mouthing Celi's Bruckner. The turkey was not meant personally. I actually like some of his other recordings of different composers.

    I agree with your approach to differences in opinion on recordings. However, I don't think it is improper to give reasons why someone dislikes certain composers, performers or conductors. They are not personal attacks. I think giving reasons why just enhances the learning experience here and I welcome them under any circumstance.
    I just find Celi's total disregard for tempo markings extreme in some cases. :cheers:
     
  21. Bronth

    Bronth Active Member

    Location:
    Riga, Latvia
    You've just combined utopia and anti-utopia in a single sentence. Hollywood awaits you. :cheers: :laugh:
     
  22. SBurke

    SBurke Nostalgia Junkie

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I've yet to see it here (in this thread I mean), thankfully, but you do sometimes come across hysterical negativity among classical and opera fans. Especially opera fans. It's always struck me as ridiculous. Nobody who appears on stage at the Met., or who records for DG, for example, is "atrocious" or "dreadful." Less than perfect, and capable of having a bad night? Sure. Not as good your favorite? Maybe. Not exactly what you like? Sure, your call. I look forward to hearing why. But casting aspersions such as those pejorative adjectives above is a response proportionate to shrieking with agony at the sound of a guy playing piano in a shopping mall, or falling to floor in a quivering heap at the sound of Muzak in a drugstore. In a word, ridiculous. Against my better judgment I emerged from my usually reserved online persona to take on one of these clowns for his review of Brendel's Beethoven sonatas.

    I liked George's concept above of four categories of recordings he's been exposed to. If I sorted similarly, we might end up with the following:
    2% of stuff I've heard I had a decidedly negative reaction too.
    18% of stuff I've heard I thought was forgettable and will likely never listen to again.
    70% of stuff I've heard I thought was good and I may listen to again.
    10% of stuff I've heard I found to be extraordinarily moving, will return to for certain, and would never part with.

    Frankly, I think some people castigate performers as a way of trying to prop themselves up. It's silly and vain.
     
  23. Bronth

    Bronth Active Member

    Location:
    Riga, Latvia
    At least, it's a more aesthetical, purifying, and I would even say, Wagnerian, scenario than a total fecal flood, which is so common on many other forums... :shh: :winkgrin:
     
  24. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    And I think that's reasonable perspective. For me, Bruckner sounds better if there's flexibility of tempo in both directions.
     
  25. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    Originally Posted by George P View Post
    One last thing, I try my best not to bad mouth (or worse) things I don't like here. If I shared my real opinion about the stuff I don't like, this thread would be a volcano of flame wars. Seriously. Instead, I just say _________ is not to my taste or I didn't enjoy ________. Instead, I try to focus on what I do enjoy.

    Luckily, there's plenty of it.
    I've yet to see it here (in this thread I mean), thankfully, but you do sometimes come across hysterical negativity among classical and opera fans. Especially opera fans. It's always struck me as ridiculous. Nobody who appears on stage at the Met., or who records for DG, for example, is "atrocious" or "dreadful." Less than perfect, and capable of having a bad night? Sure. Not as good your favorite? Maybe. Not exactly what you like? Sure, your call. But casting aspersions such as those pejorative adjectives above is a response proportionate to shrieking with agony at the sound of a guy playing piano in a shopping mall, or falling to floor in a quivering heap at the sound of Muzak in a drugstore. In a word, ridiculous. Against my better judgment I withdrew from my usually reserved online persona to take on one of these clowns for his review of Brendel's Beethoven sonatas.

    I liked George's concept above of four categories of recordings he's been exposed to. If I sorted similarly, we might end up with the following:
    2% of stuff I've heard I had a decidedly negative reaction too.
    18% of stuff I've heard I thought was forgettable and will likely never listen to again.
    70% of stuff I've heard I thought was good and I may listen to again.
    20% of stuff I've heard I found to be extraordinarily moving, will return to for certain, and would never part with.

    "Frankly, I think some people castigate performers as a way of trying to prop themselves up. It's silly and vain."

    I actually wish you would give your real opinion about the recordings, performers you do not like. I would learn more and have better insight into my listening experience and knowledge. I would never take it personally if you said..that recording is horrible RRB..totally misses what _____ was trying to say with the symphony. There would be a good chance that I would listen again and probably say.."I never thought of that or heard that."

    That is fine with me however, some members may be offended. :cheers:
     
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