Classical Corner Classical Music Corner (thread #26)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, Jun 14, 2011.

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  1. mkolesa

    mkolesa Forum Resident

    that was my point, that the ohlsson recording made the piece sound like it was a wall of sound... i haven't heard the ogdon but the hamelin makes it seem like a whole 'nother kettle of fish:
    http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2000/jan00/busoni.htm
     
  2. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I'm listening to a hair-raising performance of Rachmaninov's first Piano Sonata by Santiago Rodriguez. :bigeek:
     
  3. John S

    John S Forum Resident

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    I'm confused George -- your avatar shows no hair to raise ;)
     
  4. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    You haven't seen my arms (and legs.) :shh:
     
  5. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Now playing the following CD, which arrived yesterday for a first listen ...

    [​IMG]
     
  6. John S

    John S Forum Resident

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Busoni Piano Concerto: Ohlsson/Cleveland

    Thank you very much for your followup. I read that this piece requires listener patience, and I believe that. I will give this recording some exposure before I chuck it in favor of another reading.

    If you read Busoni's notes on this work it is clear that he was rebeling against the accepted concerto form. He mistrusted the common practice of the solo intrument being dominant over the orchestra and the formulaic conventions that resulted from that. "Absurd as this framework was, Beethoven, Brahms and Liszt could not help creating works of beauty and value within it. They instinctively revolted against it, but they could not break away from the convention of the day. The orchestra still remained timid, and the soloist agressive. These composers forced themselves to restrain their symophonic impulses and to work in superfluous flourishes such as one never finds in their other works."

    So it's clear that the composer wanted to place the piano on an equal footing with the orchestra in this massive work, so it's understandable that the piano occasionally gets swallowed by the greater force, thus giving the impression that the orchestra needlessly dominates the piano. All I'm saying is that the homogenous "wall of sound" one hears occasionally on this recording may be unavoidable, but that the effect may be intentional.
     
  7. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Now playing the following CD, which just arrived today for a first listen. I have the same recording on LP for over 25 years ...

    [​IMG]
     
  8. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    How is this recording?
     
  9. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Now playing the following DVD, which arrived last week for a first listen/watch ... ;D

    [​IMG]
     
  10. dale 88

    dale 88 Errand Boy for Rhythm

    Location:
    west of sun valley
    Perhaps I should have said that the reverb-acoustic is barely acceptable to me. I don't want anyone to think this sound field gets a thumbs up from me. "Acceptable" to me means that I will listen to the recording for the music, but that it did not reach a "good' , nor an "excellent" or "superb". When a recording has a lot of reverb from the room acoustics, there is always the danger that the music will take a second seat and the composition won't be judged fairly.
     
  11. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Now playing CD1 - Bach keyboard concertos from the following set, which arrived 2 weeks ago for a first listen ...

    [​IMG]
     
  12. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Can I ask where you got the set and how much it was?
     
  13. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I got the 10-CD set from Presto Classical for $28.40 a few weeks ago when it was running sales on all BC CD's. This set is not even available stateside yet. BTW, the remastering is quite good and I am really enjoying the Bach Piano Concertos and these are my only Bach Concertos performed by Russian orchestras ...
     
  14. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Cool! :righton:
     
  15. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    A nice disc, particularly Op. 81.
     
  16. Growl

    Growl Member

    Location:
    South of France
    I'm listening to "Cosi Fan Tutte" from this box :

    [​IMG]

    I'm in love with that thin, wild mercury sound. "Die Entführung aus dem Serail" is my favourite, I think. Constance's arias are magnificent !

    I'm on my way discovering opera and I hesitate about investing on this one box :

    [​IMG]

    Any opinions on it, or suggestions about the best way to discover Verdi, would be welcome. Thanks in advance.
     
  17. Jay F

    Jay F New Member

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I don't have it, and this super-negative review on amazon.com, especially at the current price, keeps me from buying it: http://www.amazon.com/complete-oper...=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1310305761&sr=1-1

    As far as discovering Verdi, I'd start with La Traviata. My favorite is the one conducted by Carlos Kleiber, but it can sound very glare-y, depending on your system. I also like the one with Rolando Villazon and Anna Netrebko, and I have no issues with the sound quality (my system is definitely and purposely less revealing now, so please don't take this as a straight-up s.q. recommendation). The one with Sutherland and Pavarotti is a lot of people's favorite, including many critics, but the fact that they didn't put "Di Provenza" on the highlights disc made the entire recording suspect for me.
     
  18. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    I'm hairy high and low. Don't ask me why don't know it's not for lack of bread . . .

    Eeeeeeeeeeew! :hurl:

    However, I Have seen Santiago Rodriguez:

    [​IMG]

    Then do the Trouser Press baby—One, Two Three: KICK!
     
  19. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Unless you're a Callas nut, in which case you're SOL

    Decca has a fabulous track record with Verdi. They've got the vocal goods, they've got the engineering. I doubt there's a better way to get your ultimate dose of Red-Blooded Opera.
     
  20. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    He looks like a young Arrau. Also like Drakula.
     
  21. Growl

    Growl Member

    Location:
    South of France
    There's this little one too :

    [​IMG]

    I've got Beethoven's symphonies by Toscanini, good sound, and great performances on the 1st, 2nd, 6th and 8th (for the rest, I go to Furtwangler or Fricsay). Maybe it would be a good introduction to Verdi, but I might already go for the complete edition... So hard to choose.........
     
  22. John S

    John S Forum Resident

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Mahler
    Symphony No. 1 in D Major "Titan"

    New York Philharmonic
    Leonard Bernstein
    (recorded October 4, 1966, at Philharmonic Hall [now Avery Fisher Hall], Lincoln Center, New York City)

    [​IMG]

    “Nobody understood my First Symphony who had not lived with me.” ~~Gustav Mahler

    After Mahler conducted the first three performances of his first symphony, audiences and critics were perplexed at best, and downright hateful at worst. To be sure, he enjoyed a few kudos for his initial symphonic creation, but overall the reaction was such that any other composer of lesser ego and ambition might have been tempted to give it up.

    When Mahler premiered this symphony in 1889, his future friend and rival Richard Strauss had just found popularity with his first "tone poems" Don Juan and Tod und Verklärung. Mahler, by that time an accomplished and well liked conductor of opera, knew very well how audiences wanted a story or "program" to attach to the music. He initially labeled this work as a "Symphonic Poem in Two Parts" and after a now completely obscure German Romantic novel, dubbed it "Titan." Mahler’s program notes went something like this:
    [​IMG]
    "The Hunter's Funeral Procession" woodcut by Callot​

    Regarding this 1966 Bernstein NYPO recording, in my opinion there's not much wrong with it. A minor criticism might be that the orchestra's string section seating was not traditional for Mahler's time. In particular Mahler voices the violins with the expectation of the first violins being to the conductor's left stage front and the seconds on the conductor's right stage front. For some reason after WWII, American orchestras were seating the cellos on the conductor's right with the first and second violins bunched together on the left. This issue is definitely not a deal breaker, but I am encouraged that many modern recordings are observing the traditional old European seating configuration when recording Mahler's music.

    One of the most impressive things about this recording is the aural detail of the music. The casual listener might not notice things like the subtle voicing of important motifs that often get lost on some recordings. Then there's some balance issues that some performances get wrong. The first movement offers examples of both. A lot of recordings get the off-stage trumpet fanfares sounding right, but then let the horns' sehr weich gesungen (very softly sung) and weich und ausdruksvoll (soft and expressive) answers sound like loud fanfares. Shortly after the repeated section which announces the main theme (Bernstein observes both exposition repeats in the first two movements), the cellos comply with an indicated glissando on an important despondent descending motif. Most string sections gloss over this slide, playing it as an ordinary slur. One more example of Bernstein's attention to detail is that the cellos don’t get lost in the mix when they play a part of the theme in the second half of the second movement's trio section. Also, the important harp parts in the second movement are audible and nicely balanced (on the left -- is there a customary position for the harp in an orchestra?).

    For me, the main issue with the second movement is tempo. Here Bernstein takes both of Mahler’s metronome markings a bit faster by about equal amounts. But that’s all right because that gives him plenty of room for rubato, some of which is indicated in the score and some not. Bernstein schmaltzes it up pretty good with the movement's two dance themes and that's a good thing.

    Of the handful of recordings I have, only Bernstein gets the third movement right. The opening bass solo is appropriately forlorn and grotesque -- most conductors allow the best player in the section do the honors here, a mistake in my opinion because they always play it too perfectly with a lush veneer of vibrato. The bizarre funeral procession is further enhanced by complete deadpan playing in the strings and woodwinds, albeit with a bit too much vibrato in the double reeds…sometimes I wonder if they can’t help themselves. Then, in the so-called Jewish section, Bernstein lays the sad Klezmer sound on pretty good. This is wholly appropriate and fitting here as it plays to Mahler‘s Czech/Jewish heritage and this is obviously the spirit he conceived for this music. Again, Bernstein GETS this movement.

    As indicated in the score, the fourth movement begins without pause. There's plenty of excitement here, something most recordings achieve in my experience. My only pet peeve is that the horn accompaniment often overpowers the strings' long and very beautiful cantilena in the sehr gesangvoll section. Here, Bernstein and company doesn't let that happen. Later, the symphony ends on a satisfyingly powerful note.

    Personally, I don't get the neglect this performance sees from critics now, or the derision it received when first released. Gramophone dubbed it heavy-handed, even "elephantine," and Stereo Review critic Martin Bookspan called it a "the most spectacular failure." Most critics choose Bernstein's second recording on DG with the VPO as the better of the two. Then there’s the legendary Kubelík also on DG, just to name a couple releases of dozens available. I will get around to these two eventually, but for now this Bernstein is at the top of my list. Besides, I already have the first Solti, Gergiev and Judd at my disposal, all commendable overall.

    Given my mid-fi, non audiophile position in life, I hesitate to comment too much about the sound quality of this disc. I will say that the SQ is entirely acceptable, with enough detail and dynamics to satisfy most. I credit the re-mastering for this. There is some low level tape hiss that is easy to ignore.

    My [​IMG].
     
  23. Growl

    Growl Member

    Location:
    South of France
    Finally, I'll go with the Verdi/Toscanini set, much cheaper (less than 30 of your dollars with shipping for 12 CDs), with 5 complete operas, including "Aida", "Otello" and "La Traviata". Don't mind the mono sound, as long as it is good. I'll go on with more Verdi music if I like it. Moreover, on the 74 CDs set, I found that "Aida" is conducted by HVK, neither I like his "cold" sound nor I want any recording of this upstart in my collection.
     
  24. Jay F

    Jay F New Member

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    It's long been my favorite. The only one that comes close is Judd's, and I've also been listening to both by Abbado lately. But if I had to pick just one, it would be this one.
     
  25. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I have the DVD with Netrebko and Villazon. Ms. Netrebko looks quite lovely. And the sound format is PCM. I also have both the Kleiber and the Anna Moffo on SACD.

    Also look into Puccini's popular operas, "La Boheme", "Tosca" and "Madam Butterfly." The Callas "Tosca" is her greatest achievement.

    Spent much of the afternoon listening to the first half of HVK's 1951 "Die Meistersinger". Not cold at all.
     
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