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Classical Corner Classical Music Corner (thread #38)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, Jul 4, 2012.

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  1. scompton

    scompton Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arlington, VA
  2. Good read. Very imformative. Thanks. :thumbsup:

    I'm not sure though, which arrangement the CPO played on their recording. The liner notes reference 1888 when Mahler composed that piece and 1889 when it was debuted.
     
  3. Collector Man

    Collector Man Well-Known Member

    JohnS :Thank you for the Mahler attachment you provided.

    It goes without saying, when we listen to a composer's music we are forever looking for aural hints and clues as to what is/was the very make-up of the composer -as a person. Taking into account the type of music composed, its structure/ subjective nature/ intended emotional reaction for the listener/ and various representative thematic and phrasing re-occurances that keep happening in some one work.
    Mahler tipped this notion on its head. Instead of leaving some noted musical aspect in one particular composition : he progressively used multitudes of previous examples -noted from his other compositions; continually reworking and mixing them. Has there ever been a composer that so nakedly, mentally expressed parts of his own journey through life, while then finally acknowledging and accepting his own coming death?
    The Mahler symphonic cycle ( taken as a continual connected musical whole) alone is a sound panorama for any musically perspective 'shrink'. ;I.E: All those so called inadvertant "quick musical referenced flashbacks", that pop up - that get pushed away from time to time. Everything from giddy hysterical joy, tender love, regret, sad reflection, menacing rampant jackboot militarism or a sense of being hurled into some nightmare or mental abyss. Material... that finally wishes or doggedly beg to be addressed and resolved ( perhaps in some following symphony!). Some of this thematic material is surmounted, while some of it - never ever is, conquered and put to rest.

    P.S : Besides the differing opinions we see over the inclusion of the Blumine movement back inside Mahler Ist symphony...no similiar attention tended to appear over the re-inclusion back in Mahler Das Klagende Lied, of Waldmarchen ( Part 1 of the 3 parts) that make up the work-either in performance or most recordings today. Unlike Blumine's short added duration (around 8 minutes max) back into the Mahler 1st Sym .... Waldmarchen back into Das Klagende Lied - a sizable 28-30 minutes duration - means a huge difference.
     
  4. OE3

    OE3 Forum Resident

    Now playing perhaps my favorite recording by Trevor Pinnock and The English Consort, with Anne Sophie von Otter; the late, great American soprano, Arleen Auger (1939-1993); and British bass legend John Tomlinson, who was Wotan in the LA Opera staging of the Ring in 2009/10:
    • Handel: Messiah, HWV 56 - The English Consort and Choir / Trevor Pinnock (directing from the harpsichord) [Archiv Produktion 423 630-1 3LP boxed set © ℗ 1988, 'on authentic instruments', late vinyl box with CD booklet instead of large pamphlet, Recorded in Abbey Road Studios, London, January 1988, Production: Dr. Andreas Holschneider and Charlotte Kriesch, Recording supervision: Dr. Gerd Ploebsch, Balance engineer: Hans-Peter Schweigmann, Editing: Ulrich Vette]

      -Arleen Auger (sop.)
      -Anne Sophie von Otter (contr.)
      -Michael Chance (alto)
      -Howard Crook (ten.)
      -John Tomlinson (bass)

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Graphyfotoz

    Graphyfotoz Forum Classaholic

    Location:
    South-Central NY
    My fav for years was Robert Shaw but sold it when I got the Beecham Classic Recording(1959). Beecham recording is EXCELLENT!! IMHO :righton:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  6. John S

    John S Forum Resident

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Thanks for this. I think you've summed up very well what makes Mahler great. :)
     
  7. OE3

    OE3 Forum Resident

    I concur, very well stated.
     
  8. Graphyfotoz

    Graphyfotoz Forum Classaholic

    Location:
    South-Central NY
    Giving this a listen on Spotify this morning and liking it a LOT!! :righton:
    May hafta add this to my collection....can get this 2CD New for less than $6!!

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Graphyfotoz

    Graphyfotoz Forum Classaholic

    Location:
    South-Central NY
    2nd thought it looks like this 10CD gets better reviews.
    Guess the 2 CD is lacking a lot....for the price I'm getting more for my $$.
    I have nothing on DOCUMENT recording label but the reviews seem to be ok for this set.
    If it sucked I guess someone woulda said so in the reviews.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. George P

    George P Down With The King Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    For Arrau, I say get the 2CD set on Marston or one of the Naxos Historical releases. Then you don't have to worry about sound or performance. All of Arrau's Philips recordings (now on Decca) sound great and contain great performances as well.
     
  11. Graphyfotoz

    Graphyfotoz Forum Classaholic

    Location:
    South-Central NY
    This on Decca?
    I have heard over the years this is like the best Chopin probably ever played!
    I'm seeing that this is OOP and pretty expensive these days...IF you can find it!!
    Oh yeah....and it's got excellent reviews from what I read various places.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Maybe I should sell my copy. :whistle:

    Or maybe not.
     
  13. Graphyfotoz

    Graphyfotoz Forum Classaholic

    Location:
    South-Central NY

    If the price is right...... I'm interested! :wave:
     
  14. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Sorry if my post was misleading - I'm not actually willing to part with it.
     
  15. Graphyfotoz

    Graphyfotoz Forum Classaholic

    Location:
    South-Central NY
    I figured.....just bust'in your...... :laugh:
     
  16. George P

    George P Down With The King Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    If not, it will be soon enough.

    His Brahms and Liszt are even better. And i love his Debussy too.
     
  17. jimsumner

    jimsumner Forum Resident

    Location:
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    I have to believe that this will eventually be re-released, at a bargain price.

    I hope, I hope, I hope.
     
  18. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Wouldn't an Arrau mega-box make good sense?
     
  19. jimsumner

    jimsumner Forum Resident

    Location:
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    I like the idea of releasing everything in sets by composer. Reduces duplication. If Decca can re-release Arrau's LvB, then why not his Chopin, his Brahms, et. al.?
     
  20. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Often those mega-boxes are priced so cheaply that duplication becomes a non-issue.
     
  21. mkolesa

    mkolesa Forum Resident

    I don't think the situation with the Mahler first is that straightforward... After the poorly received first performance ten years passed before the publication and during that time the symphony underwent a series of revisions. While you can certainly recognize it as the same piece, it's really not identical, with changes both small and large. I actually heard a performance of the original version and it was fascinating to hear... even the dramatic ending is constructed differently. Anyway, given that it's really not the same piece I don't think it's fair to simply plop the Blumine movement into the symphony as it stands. Performing the original version would be a different matter however, and a case can certainly be made for that. Anyway, that's just my 2¢!
     
  22. John S

    John S Forum Resident

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    I think your approach very reasonable and I agree. Famed Mahler expert and biographer Donald Mitchell has some agreement with your first point and not quite so much with your second:
    So Mitchell says you can occasionally plop the Blumine into the final form of the symphony, but not all the time.
    As regards performances of the original manuscript, Mitchell writes:
    I disagree. In my opinion, given the popularity of Mahler today, I see no harm in performing the entire symphony in its original form, especially if there are sufficient knowledgeable paying listeners who know the work in its final form and are curious enough about it to hear its original conception. So mkolesa, I agree with you on this last point.
     
  23. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    There's a similar case to be made for Bruckner's original version of his Third Symphony. Both versions are worth hearing. The earlier version is more "Romantic" and less "Brucknerian.
     
  24. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I have both sets - Pinnock and Beecham.
     
  25. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Really? I thought it was $6 for the download ...
     
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