Classical Corner Classical Music Corner (thread #40)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, Sep 1, 2012.

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  1. OE3

    OE3 Senior Member

    Handel in 1738

    Now playing:
    • Handel: Israel in Egypt, HWV 54 - Taverner Choir and Players / Andrew Parrott [EMI CDS 7 54018 2 2CD, issued on the 'Reflexe' imprint, Producer: Simon Woods, Balance engineer: Mike Hatch, Tape editor: Matthew Cocker, Recorded at Studio No. 1, Abbey Road, London, August & September 1989, pitch: A = 415, Edition: Clifford Bartlett — I like Handel, one of the masters of High Baroque style (1700-1750), but still am digesting much of his work for the first time, including this oratorio, written in 1738/39 after Saul but before Messiah]

      -Nancy Argenta (sop)
      -Emily van Evera (sop)
      -Timothy Wilson (alto)
      -Anthony Rolfe Johnson (ten)
      -David Thomas (bass)
      -Jeremy White (bass)

    On Baroque Music, by Donald Burrows, M. A., Ph. D.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Graphyfotoz

    Graphyfotoz Forum Classaholic

    Location:
    South-Central NY

    Wow I thought I'd heard of all the odd recordings of Copland!
    The Red Pony??? Don't recall that one.
    I have this one I thought was rare!

    Excellent excellent recording and performance if you can find it. :righton:

    [​IMG]
     
  3. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    (double post)
     
  4. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    [​IMG]

    TGIF!!

    Enjoying the symphony 2 recording from this set for a first spin.
     
  5. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I think I remember now. I believe your LP was sourced from the metal masters, while the later CD issues use the (inherently) noisy 78s.
     
  6. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Yes, this sounds very possible. :righton:

    I don't know the details about the sources of the RCA LPs that were released back in the early 50s, but either because of the "limited" frequency range of the LP medium or because of the use of the metal masters, these recordings sound very nice on vinyl.

    I wish I could post a needledrop to hear for yourself, George, but unfortunately I don't have the required technologies for this.:shake:
     
  7. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    No worries, I am happy with my Naxos CDs.
     
  8. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I think someone proposed the idea that maybe the RCA LPs were used for the long OOP Dante set. I have heard the Dante set and it surely is quieter, but a bit bass heavy (or treble light?) for me.
     
  9. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    The Pearl remasters are radical in their lack of any attempt to attenuate the surface noise of the so-so commercial 78's from which they are derived. I'm not convinced the remastering decisions were at all correct—hardly anything above 5k was recorded to wax back in the 1930's and the background noise on some of the Pearl transfers makes the CDs sound as if Schnabel was recording in a hailstorm. The Keith Hardwick transfers that were the basis of the over-filtered EMI CD set were originally issued in the eighties in HMV boxes with about as much useful treble detail as can be extracted from source materials of this vintage. If EMI simply took the analogue tapes [assuming they weren't erased or discarded] and ran them through a modern, digital de-clicking program, we would have the best possible CD transfers. As it is, a needledrop of the HMV box would sound better than the Naxos set. The RCA transfers have high frequency roll-off, the kind of roll-off one would usually encounter on the equipment of the same vintage as the recording. The Angel transfers have marginally clearer sound, the Seraphim boxes that were derived from those transfers [save the last three sonatas, which had new transfers from Keith Hardwick] are compressed sounding compared to the Angel set and suffer from the usual quality-control problems that Seraphim usually suffered from. The HMV reissue set from the eighties is the best transfer I have heard so far, on noise-free vinyl. It's amazing how many of Schnabel's 'mistakes' seem to be absent on the HMV transfers. The Pearl set is just awful. The Naxos set is pretty good, but suffers from working with commercial copies instead of the work materials that Hardwick had access to at Abbey Road. Compared to the Naxos copies, the early RCA transfers are pretty good, with a smoother presentation than the sometimes brittle Naxos transfers. But if you were on a quest for the best transfers, look for the HMV LP boxes.



    As I recall, Keith Hardwick used metal parts. RCA probably used transfers from 78 copies, but copies that were properly stored and played very little if at all. Naxos and Pearl are working from commercial 78's that have seen better days. I have some of the Schnabel set on RCA and Seraphim transfers, Unless you lack Schnabel's wonderfully idiosyncratic 'Diabelli Variations', there would be no point in making a needledrop. Which reminds me . . .
     
  10. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Do you have these? I think our eddie has that set, IIRC.
     
  11. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Thanks Robin, very informative post!
     
  12. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    I just received these sacds from MDT

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1349458279.285567.jpg

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1349458291.329503.jpg

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1349458300.344035.jpg

    It's gonna be a baroque weekend!
     
  13. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    So Linn's website sells two of them for $22 ($24 for a HD Download) each and MDT has them for $9.10 exclusive of VAT. I bought the disc for recorder and lute and another one (slightly more expensive) for recorder and harp.
     
  14. Collector Man

    Collector Man Well-Known Member

    The first Dolby noise reduction used on recordings was from about the mid 60's. Decca commenced with Mahler's 2nd Symphony (Solti-London Sym Orch)in 1967. I know RCA bumped up speed on their recording tape recorders from 15 inches per second to 30 I.P.S starting with Leontyne Price's complete set of Puccini Madame Butterfly around 1961in order to gain more signal to noise ratio in the pre Dolby days
     
  15. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    That's the deal that I got from MDT, John. Couldn't resist!
    I am expecting the sound of these to be excellent, like my other Linn cds.
     
  16. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Thanks, Terry, great info!
     
  17. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I would have gone for the High Res downloads had they been reasonably priced. I can listen to those through Squeezebox, but not SACDs (only the redbook layer).
     
  18. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    I can play Hi Res files on my desktop PC but I only have some little crappy computer speakers so it's pointless really. I 've listened to some samples from HDTracks through my Sennheiser headphones and I can detect sound differences from the 16/44.1 files, especially in instrument separation and in the illusion of the recording space.

    In my system, I can hardly detect any differences between redbook and DSD. Meaning that in a blind test I could not point out that this is a sacd playing or a cd.

    I do not mean that there are no differences between cds and sacds, there are. There is minimum digital "glare" on sacd, the bass is smoother, the highs more extended etc. but I am not sure whether these difference are characteristics of the medium itself or they are product of careful mastering.
    Truth be told, I 've heard the same qualities on well mastered cds.
    So if you blindfold me and you play a well mastered cd and then a well mastered sacd I guess that I won't be able to tell which is which.

    Now I can tell apart vinyl from digital from miles away, and no, this is not because of clicks, pops and surface noise. It's because analogue and digital are two different beasts.

    I like both BTW and I will end my rambling here, I really don't want to go to where many men in this forum have gone before, arguing for the one or the other.
     
  19. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Back when there was a Tower Berkeley

    I used to, back when I worked at Tower Berkeley. I've also owned the Seraphim set, still have the box of the addition piano works, like the Diabelli set. Owned the Pearl set when I worked at the Musical Offering.
     
  20. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    Indeed, we are very lucky to have him in our little corner.
     
  21. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I believe the copyright laws in the EU are much different than those of the US and thereby it is possible for some seemingly exclusive recordings made by artists for one record label decades ago to be released again by some unrelated label ...
     
  22. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    George, You have become a major fan of Earl Wild ... :righton:
     
  23. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I have been working through my unheard CDs and had some of his in there. He's OK, but not likely to become a new favorite of mine.
     
  24. Graphyfotoz

    Graphyfotoz Forum Classaholic

    Location:
    South-Central NY
    Bronth, George P, Robin L, wolfram

    What happened to Toby Aka Villicodelirante??

    He sent us a PM about some free music back July 31st
    I sent back a PM I was game.....heard nothing...got nothing since.
    I even tried to PM him with no answer.

    Any idea's??
     
  25. Collector Man

    Collector Man Well-Known Member

    Yes, it is curious what one comes across ,in the sometime by-ways of sealed CD pressings, quietly released. Toscanini's famous complete Verdi Otello (2discs)for $4, Knappertsbusch 1951 Wagner Parsifal(4 discs) for $8, and a batch of Michelangeli's piano performances late in his life for Italian Radio at $2 each. I also came across 'a stash' of about 40 new CDs some years ago being cleared out from one outlet. I brought a copy of each. The label was called "Opera Series"...selling for $4 each. There were fine AAD mastered and I can find no record of its existence on searching computor websites. It is probably now easy to see why. The nice illustrated covers simply stated they were manufactured in the EU. What they actually were , were one disc " identical" hightlights of recognised full price Opera sets from the likes of Decca, EMI and others. They were pirated releases! Yes including all the Calllas , Tebaldi sets, plus others from well recorded live opera prerformances with Pavarotti and Freni etc.
    The most interesting part was comparing these AAD mastered CD's with any equivalent '"legitimate" Decca or EMI release of the same material that had been mastered in ADD. I found in cases like Tebaldi/Del Monaco Puccini Girl of the Golden West....the "Opera Series version" AAD mastering was more agreeable - being warmer and much more "vinyl analogue" in sound.
     
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