Classical Corner Classical Music Corner (thread #41)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, Oct 6, 2012.

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  1. greenman

    greenman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Tim Powers is one of my favorites, but I have not seen his Gold Bug. However for an intellectual stroll one could use Richard Powers, he put the variations in spin.
     
  2. wolfram

    wolfram Slave to the rhythm

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    To avoid any confusion, "The Gold Bug Variations" are by Richard Powers, not Tim Powers. Robin seems to have mixed them up.
     
  3. Graphyfotoz

    Graphyfotoz Forum Classaholic

    Location:
    South-Central NY
    Musical Heritage Society also issued the same exact CD with MHS on it.
    I also got mine for about $2.00 and like it a lot.
    This is one I have never seen on SACD sad to say.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Graphyfotoz

    Graphyfotoz Forum Classaholic

    Location:
    South-Central NY
    I have a 4 of these. Got em on sale once for cheap.
    They are excellent and have gotten many rave reviews.
    The 24Bit HDCD sound quality is amazing on ALL of em! :righton:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Graphyfotoz

    Graphyfotoz Forum Classaholic

    Location:
    South-Central NY
    Speaking of Vintage Music on SACD.......
    Don't forget this one.....brings back some childhood memories!
    Sound quality on this one is BETTER than the original recordings by far!!
    Another one that got great reviews if I recall.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. John S

    John S Forum Resident

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    I find it interesting that Gould recorded the '81 version on a Yamaha, due to the fact that his favorite souped-up Steinway was accidently dropped off a loading dock.

    I prefer the '55 because there's less out of tune vocal accompaniment.
     
  7. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Right you are, my feedback loop must be spinning in the wrong direction.
     
  8. wolfram

    wolfram Slave to the rhythm

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    I only noticed Gould's singing much later when I first listened to it on headphones. I didn't know it was some kind of his trademark and it totally freaked me out. :laugh:
     
  9. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Something tells me this should have a thread of its own—Stereophile has a longer than average article concerning the technical details of the EMI SACD reissue series. I've got the Bruckner 9/8 with Schuricht and the VPO, it is very good. But there have been complaints as regards the series, much of it here on this forum. Reading this article, the basis for those complaints is made clear, if inadvertently, by Simon Gibson, who heads the operation.

    I guess that the BIG studios invest early in the latest cutting edge technology. Unfortunately, in the world of computers, most cutting edge gear is obsolete by the time you pay for it. So the Tascam DR-005 that I bought this year for $80 sonically outperforms the Nagra-D of nearly two decades ago. Amazing how long we have been living with digital recoding. But in any case, whatever process Simon Gibson is using, it looks like the original materials will let them down. According to the article, the tapes, while well stored, still suffer from audible tape joins and suchlike. Bottom line—there are audible sonic compromises in the series. I'm glad EMI is doing this, but it appears that the titles selected for the series are not chosen on the basis of initial sound quality but what is desired in the Japanese market. Thus lo-fi recordings on SACD.

    Here's the article:

    http://www.stereophile.com/content/emi-remasters-its-classical-catalog-sacd
     
  10. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    I fully agree. :agree:
     
  11. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Interesting article. I have the Gieseking Debussy set among others, and it does sound better than the previous EMI mastering (of the Etudes - only disc I had), but there are limits as to what can be done. Same for the Szell/Oistrakh Brahms - even though that is much later recording, the sound stinks. As I posted once, the EMI engineers, in that case, turned a sow's ear into a prettier sow's ear.

    And the praise in the article for the packaging reflects the author's failure to actually try to use the product.

    One thing in EMI's favor - they priced them reasonably.

    Given the D/A process used by EMI, there is no question that where HDTracks 96/24 releases of the same recordings are priced competitively, I would opt for those.
     
  12. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    I read the article when Stereophile came out and found it very interesting. I got a few of these sacd releases but I have only managed to listen critically to Klemperer's Mozart.
    I also have the US first pressings on the Angel label so I was able to do some comparisons.

    The sacds surpass the vinyl.

    I need to point out here that the Angel pressings are most of the times decent sounding and by than I mean that I have never encountered a pressing from that label that has exceptional sound quality. Even worse I have read criticisms that they used inferior (regenerated) mastering tapes and mastering equipment, and inferior, noisy vinyl (Arthur Salvatore).

    So in this context and since the US vinyl is my point of reference I am very happy with the Klemperer release (like I said I cannot offer meaningful comments on the others yet).

    Concerning the criticism of these releases by the audiophiles here in this forum and elsewhere I would like to say that IMO audiophiles do not recognize good sound even if it bites them where the sun don't shine.:D

    I don't care much about PCM, DSD, filters, Cedar system etc. although it is always interesting and good to know. I evaluate recordings with the "same" approach that Gibson describes in the article:

    Also tonight I am going to the symphony to hear Mozart's Piano Concerto 16, Hanson Romantic Symphony and Filandia :goodie:

    Why do I mention this here as part of this response? It illustrates the point that I was trying to make with the above quote.
     
  13. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Compared to What?

    I agree that listening to the real thing on a regular basis is the only way to make meaningful critical judgements about sound.

    I thought the transfer of Bruckner's Ninth with Schuricht and the VPO was very good, better than any previous incarnation I have owned. The recording of the Eighth was new to me and the sound was not as good. But the performances being preserved are worth being presented in the best possible state. I'd love to hear a SACD transfer of Boult's final recording of Holst's "The Planets". That recording is worth a deluxe transfer for all the right reasons. I just hope they stop with the stupid packaging, that is a real turn-off to most SACD collectors.
     
  14. john greenwood

    john greenwood Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Just checked - HDTracks has quite a few titles not available on SACD - Klemperer's Missa Solemnis and Deutches Requiem, Boult's Enigma Variations (plus several short works by RVW), several recordings by Cluytens, Barbirolli's Mahler 9th, and more. As I am willing to download from their - great success on jazz titles - I would appreciate comments. (I do have the two Klemperer Masses on CD.)
     
  15. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    [​IMG]

    After dis-recommending this CD to a friend on another site, I thought I'd listen again to see exactly what it was I didn't like the first time around, especially since I have read that Moravec is a fan of his. I actually like it more that I had recalled, but I still don't recommend it. "Plain vanilla" is how I'd describe it. Pretty playing with not enough of the requisite intensity. Overall it's listenable and not objectionable, but in such a crowded field, I think much more individuality is called for in this music.
     
  16. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

    Location:
    ---------------
    IME the US Angel LPs are uniformly vastly inferior to their UK EMI counterparts.
     
  17. Collector Man

    Collector Man Well-Known Member

    Of older recordings. is it the simple fact : who in those days, had possession of the REAL master tapes from the recording sessions? Since out of standard practice: companies in those days were loathe to send the originals elsewhere to other countries for use in restarting the manufactiring process of a 'local edition ' in that country. The risk of loss and damage alone in handling transit, was considered too great. So they sent a copy of the original by air,.. and kept the original - safe in their main vaults (the country where it was recorded).
    The second generation 'master' tape copy made : even then on the best professional recorders .....before Dolby and digital... in Hi Fi circles: were known to be at least 3 db less in the signal to noise ratio factor alone
    Rule of thumb for some collectors in those days: . Where was the recording made? Then....make sure your purchased recorded disc was manufactured 'there'
    On top of that, there were certain licenced 'record clubs' allied to various labels. Who.. had extra stampers made by the parent owner/holder of the material and then shipped out to start manufacturing limited runs of a disc
     
  18. George P

    George P Notable Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    [​IMG]

    Enjoying another "new to me" CD, this one from Music and Arts. Gilels plays Liszt Sonata, Waldstein and Op, 109 by Beethoven.
     
  19. Tangledupinblue

    Tangledupinblue Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Just been listening to some fascinating stuff on YouTube that I'd like to share - these are all performances of 20th-century music by the amazing pianist Marc-Andre Hamelin, who no doubt many on this thread have heard of, but probably much less so the second of these composers I'm going to feature here. These all include scores, very valuable for any aspiring composer who wants to study this era of music, as well of great interest to anyone who can read music and enjoys the more advanced early 20th century styles.

    First off, Copland's keyboard masterpiece the Piano Variations:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1-vIw_M-Qg

    But the main interest is these two highly intriguing sets of piano music by the Brazilian composer Heitor Villa-Lobos, called Prole do Bebe (The Baby's Family). Of particular interest is the way the music showcases the evolution of his increasingly modern style between the two books and even within the second; the first is relatively straightforward if highly imaginative and pianistic, sounding somewhat akin to a vaguely Brazilian flavoured Children's Corner with influences of Ravel. But the second is something quite different; wild, craggy, often harshly dissonant (though not without his softer Impressionist leanings), near atonal in places with most pieces ending on unresolved discords, owing to the more radical advances of Bartok, middle Russian period Stravinsky, Les Six (no surprise that he and Milhaud were friends as their music has a lot in common) and even anticipating Messaien in places (like in The Little Cloth Bird) and extraordinarily technically demanding. But it's also full of colour and his exotic flavoured melodies and rhythms, strikingly original and deserves to be better known. Here's the music for your pleasure (first clip is all Book 1, but the much longer Book 2 is split into one piece per video):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4Q66xBrREs&feature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl1EtnEFybs&feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzFzjRTOpWQ&feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbzenMlyrqk&feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h11tQNOFSk4&feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6ryga_84nY&feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hSgKK8G2Yc&feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3RzomJ7fIo&feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6tckNGFVhU&feature=relmfu
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXLBUdQeHdo&feature=relmfu


    Finally, I imagine Andre-Hamelin has done a lot of recordings of the older favourites (eg Chopin, Liszt, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann etc). What are people's thoughts on his performances of this repertoire?
     
  20. WorldB3

    WorldB3 Forum Resident

    Location:
    On the continent.
    Just in case there is anybody here who has some interest in Gould or Steinway pianos the book "A Romance on Three Legs: Glenn Gould's Obsessive Quest for the Perfect Piano" is a must read. Can't recommend it enough.

    George, the interview disc from State of Wonder was a great listen. It helps to get more inside his approach to the 81 recordings.
     
  21. Six String

    Six String Senior Member

    I've never owned this music and have been thinking of picking it up so this is good information. Since I listen to Keith Jarrett I doubt the vocalese will deter my enjoyment. :)
     
  22. dajokr

    dajokr Classical "Mega" Box Set Collector

    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    If you are interested in Gould and don't already have the music on CD, there is a beautiful set out (Complete Bach Edition) as well as reissues of the Glenn Gould edition running at reasonably low prices in the Amazon marketplace.
     
  23. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

    Location:
    ---------------
    Hamlin is not my favorite but I think he gets a bad rap. I do think he is excellent.
     
  24. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

    Location:
    ---------------
    I don't know all that much about how the two went about mastering LPs so it would be hazardous for me to guess as to why the EMIs from UK were so consistently better than their US Angel counterparts.


    I am quite leery of such rules of thumb and prefer to form preferences based on actual auditions and assume nothing about how things were done. I'd rather be informed by facts than assumptions. Far too often it has not been the original pressing from the country of origin that has won the day when it comes to sonic excellence for me to rely on any rules of thumb.
     
  25. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    I don't know how much attention you have been paying to all those Beatles threads at this forum, but you might have encountered the term 'Dexterization'. The Capitol pressing plant used to be walking distance from where I lived in Eagle Rock, CA. I remember seeing returns having their labels scrubbed off and the LPs being re-ground. Capitol Records, Los Angeles, was not doing a particularly good job during their peak years, at least compared to what was coming out of England and Germany at the time. Simply bad quality control.

    Ron Pendorf, of 'Recollections', Berkeley CA, would audition the discs he would offer up as collectibles. As I recall, he had a Rega and a decent little stereo system in his small shop. In any case, what the collectors who shopped at Recollections were seeking were those pressings closest to the time of first issue in pressings made off the first mix-down master tape. While I know that some re-masters offer up greater resolution or less apparent distortion compared to originals, what Ron had to say seems right to me—these pressings would be what the artists and engineers approved, it was in their ears. Right or wrong, it's what the artists initially signed off on. The artists did not sign off on the Angel issues of recordings made in Europe. It's a safe bet the U.K. pressings of Klemperer's Mozart would be superior to the Angel equivalents.
     
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