Classical Corner Classical Music Corner (thread #42)

There are a few of her recordings on Vox that are reasonably priced ...

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=popular&field-keywords=Novaes

 

Now playing the following CD, a recent arrival for a first listen ...

 

listening tonight to two Mozart Piano Concerto recordings conducted by Barbirolli:
No. 22 with Edwin Fischer & 'The John Barbirolli Chamber Orchestra',recorded 6/6/35
and No. 27 with Robert Casadesus & The New York Philharmonic-Symphony Orchestra,
recorded 11/3/41.very nice.

 

At a rehearsal, where I presume the hall is not full, it may be the case that the differences between the halls are exaggerated, so to speak, in comparison with the halls at full capacity, when the reverberation time can be substantially shorter and when you might hear more reflected as opposed to direct sound. In fact it's even possible, I suppose, for the best seat in a hall to change depending on how crowded the hall is.

I've never been to Disney Hall -- is DD in the fourth row? On the floor? That really is close for a great seat. But props to you for finding it!

 

Got some classical LP sets for cheap yesterday, am going to try them out later today. One is the complete Beethoven sonatas by Schnabel on an EMI Angel Great Recordings of the Century set. Kind of an ugly-looking leather-bound thing. But it was unopened and only 25 bucks so I figured it was worth a try, as my only other version of this watershed set is the oft-maligned EMI CD release. I think I recall from reading in this thread that Robin et al. dislikes the sound of the Angel LP's. So I hesitated. But I figured what the heck.

I also got Berlioz's "Benvenuto Cellini," conducted by Davis, on Philips, for 4 bucks, and Toscanini's "Aida" for 5 bucks. Both in pristine condition. It doesn't seem as if they were ever played.

 

Got an e-mail from ImportCDs - the Perahia box is available for ordering. Only three left. (I grabbed the fourth.)

Listening right now to Poulenc's Dialogue of the Carmelites via MOG. Kent Nagano conducting. Absolutely gorgeous music.

 

I had a credit from amazon and used it to get this recording of Schnabel playing the Beethoven Sonatas. It's only a $1.99 for the set. I don't own a complete set of the sonatas and understood that the sound quality would be poor but for $2 I could care less. Actually, I was expecting the sound to be a lot worse. It has been really interesting to see how he interprets the sonatas compared to the few perfromances I've heard so far. The only downside personally is it is missing #31.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Beethoven...=UTF8&qid=1352040441&sr=8-2&keywords=schnabel

 

It does make a difference but not a huge difference. At Davies Hall and at the Smith Center I spent some time in rehearsals sitting in my actual seat so I could note that very difference. Seats are actually a bit more absorbent than people sitting in them so you get a little more absorption and a little less diffusion in the hall when there are fewer people there. Honestly I think the orchestra themselves have a bigger impact than the audience on the sound. I noticed a bigger difference in the sound of the piano at davies Hall when Yuja rehearsed with and without the orchestra.

DD is fourth row in Disney Hall. It is probably the equivalent of 5th-6th row in most halls due to the curvature of the rows in the front orchestra section.

In my experience 5th row center is pretty close to ideal in most halls. The better the hall the closer the sound will be to that ideal as you move further away from it.

At Davies Hall anything past the 10th row is pretty much terrible. 4th -7th row center section offers by far the best sound. Which is actually very good. Front row at Davies Hall is actually pretty good sound. the only problem there is the vast spread of the orchestra. Also in Davies Hall as you get closer to the stage you get too low. Really you are already too low in any part of the first 10 rows but it's better IMO to be a bit too low for the view than to be too far back where the sound falls apart. This is something I hate about most traditional concert halls. There simply is no "god" seat at Davies Hall. The view is compromised from every single seat in that hall.

At Disney Hall row DD is slightly above the stage. The better angle makes for a vastly superior view. You can see everything up close from there. That angle and position simply does not exist in most concert halls. It is the perfect seat from which to see a piano concerto. the only way I get that view of the piano during rehearsals in the other halls is when I actually sit on stage and watch from there (yes I did that too for some of Yuja's personal rehearsals.Wouldn't you?)

Disney Hall is a remarkable hall. As good as the new hall is at the Smith Center it is still quite inferior to Disney Hall. Unlike Davies Hall where only the first 10 rows offer good sound, Disney hall gives you truly excellent sound from well over half the seats in the house and Disney Hall gives you a better view of the musicians from every part of the house in comparison to the equivalent locations in traditional concert halls. A much better view actually.

For the actual concert at Disney Hall I sat row K slightly left of center. Of course it was not an ideal seat for the view being slightly wrong side of keyboard but the sound was easily much better than *any* seat at Davies Hall or the Smith Center. IMO that is amazing. So while the sound was significantly better at Disney Hall in row DD than it was in row K the drop off was not the difference between very good sound and very bad sound but simply the difference between the best sound I have ever heard and merely superb sound better than that from any seat in Davies Hall or The Smith Center.

Oh and the Smith Center was much better than Davies Hall and did not fall apart once you go further back. In fact on the floor the sound held up remarkably well toward the back of the house. But it aint Disney Hall. It did suffer from a somewhat hard sound and was a bit too reverberant and lacked that magical lower midrange warmth of Disney Hall.

And again the thing that jumped out at me is just how big these differences really were. Being in these halls one day after the next was what demonstrated the vastness of these differences for me.

I hope I am making sense here.

 

Yes, I think I follow this.

I'm a little surprised though that you think the sound will be better in an empty hall than a crowded hall (setting aside the coughing of audience members and whatnot). Concert-hall seats usually are designed to be absorbent, but wouldn't there be more disruption of reflection with an audience?

Actually a lot of my understanding of acoustics in interior space comes from thinking and talking about sports arenas, which generally are going to have more imperfections and variability than concert halls. And in an arena with challenging acoustics those challenges are going to be even greater without a crowd. But perhaps these examples are not that closely comparable.

I've usually preferred to sit in the front of the balcony at most concerts. Some of my best experiences have come in those locations. Then again it is hard to distinguish between the quality of a seat and the quality of a performance -- it is not as if I've ever been able to conduct a controlled experiment.

 

I wouldn't make such a blanket statement about empty halls v. filled halls in general. In the particular cases of Davies Hall and the Smith Center I would say that the sound is better with the audience in the hall at The Smith Center but not at Davies Hall. At Smith center the empty hall worsens reverberant and shouty quality that is already it's weakness. The audience helps that by a fair amount. At Davies Hall the sound projects better without the audience so the damage done by sitting further back in the hall is less severe. Interestingly the sound in those first 10 rows at Davies Hall is hardly affected at all by an audience. I would have made the comparison at Disney hall too but once I got in that "god" seat I was not leaving.

Balconies often offer the better angle but are too far away for a good view IMO. I like to see what the musicians are doing. The intimacy of a close seat is as visceral a part of the live experience as the sound. But boy oh boy, if you ever want to *not* hear a concert get one of those premium balcony seats at Davies Hall. They are the most expensive seats in the house and they are simply terrible. I got suckered into those seats once. Never again. I actually got someone at the box office at Davies Hall to confess that they push those seats knowing that they are in fact inferior seats. Don't trust the opinions of the box office folks. They are supposed to try to sell the most expensive seats first.

I don't think one can make any meaningful comparisons between concert halls and sports arenas. The design goals are totally different.

 

Oh and by the way, if I sound like I am making these claims about the sound at these different halls as objective fact I do mean them as my very subjective personal opinions. YMMV.

 

No, the Angel set is pretty good. It's better than the Seraphim set, is really beaten on LP only by the HMV set. You've got a winner. If I saw one of those faux-leather boxs, I'd cough up $25. That set is collectible. And I'm cheap—real cheap. Spent all of $2 yesterday for a 10-LP Readers Digest [Dynagroove era, alas] Classical Music Collection entitled 'Scheherazade', 10 Lps worth of Romantic era warhorses, decent sound. That's the end of the pool I'm playing in these days. Not a problem, as long as I keep stumbling into bargains like these.

 

Now enjoying this "new to me" CD. The sound is not as clear as the Mercury Living Presence recordings of the same works and the performances seem to fall short of the Mercury ones as well, but nonetheless, this is still some great playing. The Mercury I just find more exciting, more "electric," if you will.

 

The Temple City Kazoo Orchestra "Inside" the Taj Mahal

No You Don't!

Seriously, dry versus damp—who knew it would make such a difference?

Everybody's subjective opinion is valid. Sometimes there are facts involved as well. It always amazes me how much the place a piece of music is performed in is such a part of the mood and vibe of the music.

 

I remember the Readers Digest records!
I had a fair amount of them back in the day.
They actually weren't bad....kinda like the MHS CD's of today.
Some are great and some are not so great but you don't break the bank to get em.

 

Haydn
String Quartets, Op, 74, 1-3
Kodály Quartet
(Budapest, 1989)



Thanks again for the recommendation of this immensely enjoyable music. Up to that time, string quartets were heard only in the parlors of aristocratic connoisseurs. But the so-called "Apponyi Quartets," these three being the last half, changed all that. These quartets were performed in public. One would think this gratified Haydn, although he also might have felt more pressure to satisfy tastes of a lower denominator.

I agree fully with your assessment of Op 74/1. I also feel that Op. 74/3 is equally brilliant, with its lovely Largo assai, and its galloping brio finale.

 

Glad you like the quartets so much. The only problem I have with those Naxos series (which I'm usually prepared to overlook with the really good value and often excellent performances) is the dreary music notes of that hack Keith Anderson (which IIRC is the writer for those Haydn quartets? I don't own that CD) - some usual background information, but his analysis of the music itself shows no insight at all into the emotional effect it has on the listener, which is ultimately the most important aspect of music, rather than what type of chords, counterpoint or development it uses (although those can be interesting on a purely intellectual level, but not useful when you're getting into music for the first time).

I always breathe a sigh of relief when I look at the back of a Naxos CD and find his name is nowhere to be seen - how he manages/managed to hold on to his post at Naxos is a mystery to me.

(But sorry if you happen to disagree with me and think his notes are wonderful!)

 

I haven't even gotten into how the hall sound affects the artist's performance. That was a really interesting subject that came up this week. It would seem that the performer hears a very different hall sound than the audience and it directly affects choices in interpretation.

 

Oh my goodness. This is a brutal review.

http://www.sfgate.com/music/article/S-F-Symphony-review-Lang-Crash-Boom-4004530.php

"It only took Lang Lang a few minutes on Thursday night to start beating the stuffing out of a defenseless Steinway grand piano on the stage of Davies Symphony Hall."

 

Is that one of the same concerts you've just been to?

On a similar note, a couple of years ago I went to a rather wacky production of Turandot at the London Coliseum (with their in-house company ENO). I still enjoyed it a lot having never heard the opera in its entirety before (probably none of it apart from Nessun Dorma) but it got a right panning the next day in the UK paper the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/oct/09/turandot-opera-review-andrew-clements). Kind of soured the enjoyment of it afterwards...

 

No. wasn't there for the Lang Lang but I was there for the Yuja Wang concert the reviewer used for comparison.

Are there shelters for abused pianos?

 

Took another trip to the Philharmonie today. This was on the program:

Robert Schumann - Genoveva Overture
Frederick Delius - Violin Concerto
Hector Berlioz - Symphonie Fantastique

The orchestra was the Sinfonie Orchester Schöneberg, a semi-professional group that is good enough to sell out the Philharmonie and got Sir Simon Rattle to conduct the Schumann piece. Pretty impressive. The other two pieces were conducted by Stanley Dodds, who often works with members of the Berlin Philharmonic. Solo violin on the Delius piece was performed by Guy Braunstein, another member of the Berlin Philharmonic.

But the highlight for me was the Symphonie Fantastique. I only have a cheap CD of this piece by some no-name orchestra and painful sound quality, that I bought many years ago for a couple of cents. I may have listened to it about three times in 15 years and always found it hard to get through. I assumed I didn't care for this piece until today. But seeing it performed live by a quality orchestra changed my mind and I was quite intrigued. I may need a better performance of it for the future.

But seeing Sir Simon live was pretty cool too.

BTW, the whole thing cost ridiculous five Euros. My mother knows a member of the orchestra who got the tickets for us.

 

Now enjoying this recent purchase. It has some works not available in the 2CD set:
Rhapsodie d'Auvergne, Op. 73
Allegro appassionato, Op. 70

and some works not often recorded:
'Wedding Cake' Caprice-Valse, Op. 76
'Africa' Fantaisie, Op. 89

 

Fantastique!

The Symphonie Fantastique was my open sesame for the 'Classical Music Experience.' There's many great recordings of this work. Munch and the BSO on the RCA SACD is very good, one of my default versions. I have a soft spot for Argenta with the Paris Conservatory Orchestra on Decca. Mid-seventies Karajan with Berlin on DGG is flat out insane, with rock-and roll mixing. Bernstein knows what to do with this work, as does Beecham. Colin Davis with various orchestras made a number of wonderful recordings of the work, he is worth seeking out as well.

 

In "Concert Space" no one can hear you scream

You know why they call it Hertz Hall, don't you? Cause the sound Hertz your ears. [ insert canned laughter ].

I mean, there's an actual phase suck-out in that room. If you want to be heard, don't perform center stage.

No one will hear you.