Classical Corner Classical Music Corner (thread #56)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by George P, May 27, 2014.

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  1. coopmv

    coopmv Newton 1/30/2001 - 8/31/2011

    Location:
    CT, USA
    I have never been a big fan of Rene Jacobs. Somehow I still prefer a woman singing alto, though I understand HIP recordings tend to be true with the historical norm, i.e. women were not allowed to perform in public in the 17th century, particularly in a church setting ...
     
  2. john greenwood

    john greenwood Well-Known Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I have a box set of his from the first generation of budget boxes (9 discs I think) with the major Bach choral works.
     
  3. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    In the 1960s Paillard was sort of middle of the road given how Baroque music was performed at the time. By the 70s though he was moving more in the direction of period sensitivity. This recording is not Romanticized or heavy.
     
  4. bluemooze

    bluemooze Forum Resident

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    The way sound affects us is something we're born with IMO. To me the most beautiful sound in the world is the female voice. Not a decision on my part, it's just always been that way. Female vocals trigger a pleasure sensor somewhere in me. And whatever/wherever that sensor is inside me, it does not respond to countertenors in the world of classical music. Not even a single bit. Sometimes you can learn to appreciate musical things that are new/strange to you at first, but this hasn't happened for me with the CTs. My loss, but even if the music has to be changed to accommodate the different vocal characteristics I'd prefer a female vocal over a countertenor any day.
     
  5. bluemooze

    bluemooze Forum Resident

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    When I first started listening to classical music vocals (a world opened up to me by the lovely and talented Emma Kirkby) I didn't realize some of the vocals were male until I finally read the album liner notes/booklets. I thought they were women with unattractive voices. :eek:
     
  6. ibanez_ax

    ibanez_ax Forum Resident

    I now have this near-mint pressing purchased used at Hastings for $1.99. :pineapple:
    I'm not that familiar with either work, but the performances sound good to me. The sound is not bad, considering this was from 1983 which was in the era of DG multi-miked digital recordings. It's a little bright, but then again I'm still breaking in a Jico SAS stylus.


    *Edit* Duh, the intro of the Grieg woke up a memory of this concerto! I was having either a senior moment or a bald moment (or both!)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2014
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  7. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    I've read that the Miaas Solemnis is full of passages that were extrapolated from renaissance sacred choral musics. I recall hearing the phrase "Eye music". In any case, the later music that Beethoven didn't listen to is full of explosive moments of dissonance that remind me of Charles Ives, particularly the later fugues. I'd say that a bit of it sounds like throwing it at the wall, seeing if it sticks. The true beginning of "experimental" music as we know it.
     
  8. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    I was aware of the male voice in the higher registers thanks to the pop music conventions of the Sixties. Beatles anyone? Not to mention Art Garfunkle. In any case, moving from "She Loves You" to "Come Ye Sons of Art" doesn't seem like such a stretch. Going from "Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Thyme" to EM is hardly a stretch at all.
     
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  9. bluemooze

    bluemooze Forum Resident

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    I know. What you say is completely logical. I have no problem appreciating and enjoying all the other types and variations of higher register male voices. In fact, when I used to sing harmony parts when I was in a band I sang high parts. The background vocals of the Beatles' "Mr. Postman" are thrilling; could listen to that for hours. Have always loved Byrds' harmonies. Few things are as exciting to me as the final harmonies at the end of "The Bells Of Rhymney." But it's not based on logic - it's purely sound and the way I react to it. I'm a guitar player and of course love the way guitars sound, but there is one particular guitar tone that some jazz guys from the 50's used that leaves me completely unmoved. And yet it's a sound that many people love. Go figya. :)
     
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  10. John S

    John S Forum Resident

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Also not to mention Frankie Valli, Barry Gibb, and not least, all the great African American falsetto work in the 60s and 70s...Eddie Kendricks to name one.

    Now, prepubescent castration is another story.
     
  11. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    . . . and I suspect that the best of countertenors would never sound as good as the best Castrati. I have referred to small voiced sopranos with dry sounding voices—Emma Kirkby comes to mind—as Countersopranos. Susie Rode Morris of Ensemble Alcatraz has a Powerful Mezzo voice, can easily blow out microphones from a distance. Something of an anomaly in Early Music circles but thrilling to hear in the flesh. Come to think of it, Shira has a mighty powerful voice as well. But a lot of what I've heard as regards early music vocals seems unnaturally scaled down. Lovely but not much use in halls with more than 500 seats.
     
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  12. George P

    George P Lazy Sunbather Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC
    (Just got an email and wanted to pass this info on to you guys)

    Classical and Opera/Vocal CDs and our first ever CD sale at Princeton Record Exchange!

    Over 20,000 Thousand Classical, Opera and Vocal CDs!

    One of the more interesting aspects about our store is that we can’t control our used inventory; what people decide to sell us, is what we can buy. You regulars have probably noticed that these purchases often run in streaks, and boy have we had a streak of buying classical lately. It is tough to list exact numbers as we have bought at least five huge collections in the fast few weeks, and they’re starting to blur together.. We have them crammed everywhere we can, even, unusually for us, some off-premises. However, without exaggeration, we easily have 20,000 CDs we are working on now! (I say 18,000 in the video below, but we bought another 2,000 this morning!)

    The titles range from common to rare, major label to obscure, from 50’s recordings to modern era. As you might expect with this many pieces, there isn’t a lot that’s missing. In particular, we have a huge amount of opera in stock, with the whole back wall dedicated to all things vocal. We have processed what we can for now, and every bin is full, so…..

    50% off Cheap Classical CD Sale This Weekend, Sat. 5/31 and Sun. 6/1, 2014

    We price and process our CDs into two categories: our regular priced titles which are over $5.00 a disc, and our “Cheap CDs” that are $4.99 per disc or less (most $1.00 to $2.99 per). All the Cheap classical CDs can be identified by the green price stickers we use. These Cheap CDs are not alphabetized so it takes some hunting, but we do break them down into opera/vocal , which are on the back wall, and instrumental, which are everywhere we can fit them. At rough count, we have 10,000 out in stock, and this weekend only (5/31 and 6/1), all the Cheap classical CDs are 50% off! All green-stickered CDs, half-price. We have never had this kind of sale on CDs of any kind, but we are that desperate for space, and our problem is your savings. Please pass this info around if you know folks who love classical but don’t know our store well…we can use the help on this one. If the sale is a success, we’ll try it on other categories when we get backed up. Thanks!
     
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  13. NapoleonXIV

    NapoleonXIV Forum Resident

    Location:
    WI
    In 1963 Ormandy resumed conducting with a baton, after having conducted baton-less for the previous 24 years. Perhaps this played a part in his changing style.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2014
  14. vanhooserd

    vanhooserd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville,TN
    I know what you mean about voices & guitar tone. It's hard for me to really appreciate a lot of the top jazz guitarists of the past 30 years due to their tone. Another example is Jerry Garcia: I love his tone when he played Gibson & Fender; on the custom guitars he played later, not so much.
     
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  15. MrSka57

    MrSka57 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Syracuse, New York
    Thanks for the response to my post.
    Ormandy's first recording of Pictures with the PO (orch. Lucien Cailliet) was for RCA Victor in 1937. The one pictured was his first in the
    Ravel arrangement and recorded in 1953. I saw one at the SA awhile back with an nice cover and a beat-to-heck LP.

    I agree with you that the 1980s RCAs (all; not just EO) blow. Their covers weigh more than the discs.

    My wife is from Philly and her family were big fans so I've been collecting 60s originals for her (I also found
    a M- white label promo of the 1956 Virtuosi LP. You can't beat the 60s Columbia MWs and RCA Victor Red Seals
    for quality (I only collect 60s Ormandy & E Power Biggs Columbias but I'll always grab a Living Stereo).
     
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  16. ibanez_ax

    ibanez_ax Forum Resident

    The CD side of this dual-disc doesn't play properly on my PC-it stutters a lot. I tried to rip it but after 20 minutes it was still ripping the first movement, so I ejected it. Maybe I'll try to rip it tomorrow. I will also try to play it in my DVD and Blu-ray players. The disc is very thick.

    I haven't tried the DVD side yet. Oh well, $1.49 at Hastings.

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

    Location:
    ---------------
    IMO Krystian Zimerman is one of the best pianists of all time. Too bad i will never get to see him play live in the U.S.A.
     
  18. WHitese

    WHitese Forum Resident

    Another beauty straight from the mother country...(England, that is)

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. drh

    drh Talking Machine

    In case anybody here isn't aware, one castrato lived late enough to make records. His name was Alessandro Moreschi, and he sang in the Sistine Chapel choir at the beginning of the 20th c. In the US, Victor issued a few records in which he can be heard (presumably originally HMV recordings). The most famous is a solo outing in the Bach-Gounod Ave Maria. To my ear, the voice is grotesque--but nobody ever claimed that Moreschi was a particularly good castrato singer. He was, however, the only one to make records, or at least solo records.

    Of course, when much of that music was new, a 500-seat hall would have been a very large performance space. I imagine only the great cathedrals would have exceeded that size, wouldn't that be true? So what we have here is a need to accommodate "period" practice to modern realities.
     
  20. Hawkman

    Hawkman Supercar Gort Staff

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Well that's two votes for the Muti. Looks like that's the way I'm going. :) Thanks. Macbeth is my favorite Shakespeare and I'm just curious to see and hear what the opera does for it.

    So...the DVDs are pretty much a crap shoot??
     
  21. Collector Man

    Collector Man Well-Known Member

    For a CD version , look no further than the(now 2 mid - price...... instead of 3 CD's when released on first issue , at full price) highly respected La Scala Muti version on DG with Cappuccelli/ Verrett... conducted by Claudio Abbado.
    In making that choice for you, I have thought and considered about 7 other versions of Macbeth on offer.
     
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  22. Collector Man

    Collector Man Well-Known Member

    Upon now reading others'comments here on the matter, I will put forward strong resservations about some of those other recoomendations.
    (1) The RCA Ryansek /Leinsdorf recording frorm the 60's is a CUT version of the score.
    (2) The Zampieri....Hell! I have a few recordings of Zampieri ( including her Lady Macbeth) . It certainly took (even to a long time opera fanatic, like me ) time to hear 'and adjust' to a vocal timbre and technique such as Zampieri's. It remains but what people would call a particular form of 'opera curio'. Nothing more. Her later forays in things like Puccini's The Girl of the Golden West ( unfortunately also recorded for posterity!) was a disaster. It is only about 2 years since I watched and witness her Herodias in Strauss' Salome - live from a Paris production - on my computer at 3AM! A strange ho hum so-so performance all round. once again.

    P.S Verrett with her 'falcon voice' ABSOLUTELY OWNED the difficult Lady Macbeth role in Verdi's Macbeth for a great deal of years.
     
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  23. Collector Man

    Collector Man Well-Known Member

    The Muti / Macberth recording ( when on 3 vinyl records - also included alternate arias, subsequently excluded from the 2CD EMI release!) It has Sherill Milnes doing Macbethin a 'matter of fact way' .,without what appears as any apparent specil insight.
    I did actually see Milnes on stage do this role alongside Rita Hunter - (who could let fly with volume to remind of a Flagstad or Nilsson) a remarkable Wagnerian Brunnhilde that also had the easy vocal flexibilty to sing Bellini's Norma and not give the hint of tiring, essaying the role of Turandot.
    Lady Macbeth has mezzo qualities as well as full-on soprano colortura passages.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2014
  24. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    I would get the Muti CD first and only if you adore the music would I start getting DVDs since none are very good. Even then I would get more CD versions first. I don't disagree that Zampieri is a bit of an acquired taste but in the DVD the staging becomes more important.

    Be advised that Collector Man has the typical attitude of opera enthusiasts about any cuts in the operas they listen to.:) I am more relaxed about that particularly in aria and recitative scores. Wagner or Strauss type operas are more difficult to cut. Understand that many live performances have cuts to the total work and often opera composers overcomposed material to adjust for local singers, never expecting that everything would be performed at a single performance. No different than Shakespeare's plays BTW where cuts were often made in live performance.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2014
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  25. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    The Masses were of course performed in a cathedral or in a nobleman's private chapel. Ceremonial motets were often performed with large gatherings but exactly how the performers were situated is unclear. Other than a clear distinction between outdoor and indoor styles I doubt that Early Music performances bothered about the hobgoblin of consistency. I think it is quite possible that solo chansons were performed in large halls as entertainment for a nobleman with guests and relations as the audience as well as in the private quarters as personal entertainment. Nevertheless I highly doubt that the small group of chanson singers plus accompanists were on a raised stage like today. I assume they performed right in front of the nobleman with guests arranged around them. So I rather side with DRH that the solo singers did not need carrying power. Maybe the ceremonial singers had the loud voices.
     
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